Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:01 Women go through a lot. All women have periods, all women will go through menopause. A lot of women will go through the experience of, of pregnancy and the complications that can come with that, like pregnancy loss. And, uh, you know, the trauma of, of going through labor for some where companies should begin is, well two things. One, fostering and enabling a culture where people are able to speak about these topics and they feel comfortable talking about them and, and raising awareness on what these topics are. And the leadership team needs to be bought into this and they need to support it because if they don't, that, that culture and that's psychological safety just will not filter through the organization.
Speaker 2 00:00:49 So Alyssia, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Um, I'm really looking forward to chatting and your thoughts, um, on a few of the talent and peoples we have lined up. Um, so to get started, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, your career journey to where you're today?
Speaker 1 00:01:06 Yeah, absolutely. Um, thank you very much for having me on as well, by the way, very much looking forward to this. Uh, so I actually started my career, um, not in the people and talent space. I actually was a teacher, um, straight after uni. So I graduated in 2009, signed my aged, uh, but also a bad time to graduate. Uh, for those who did back then, remember we had a bad recession. Um, so I went into teaching, uh, English as a foreign language and really, really enjoyed it and did that for five years. And after a while I realized that actually I loved it, but it wasn't a long term career for me. So I kind of sat with my, uh, colleagues and peers and kinda went through what, what was it that I actually really liked about it and where did I want to go with my career?
Speaker 1 00:01:55 And I just realized that it was the people side of helping people and supporting them and, and helping them achieve things and seeing them grow and, and develop. And, um, and I got promoted during my time there as well. So I did a bit of management and recruit, which I also really enjoyed. So somebody said, Hey, look, why don't you try going into recruitment? It can be very lucrative. Um, it's, it's fun. You get to work with all sorts of different people and you get to help people find jobs. Um, and so I did that and I went, my first role was with Reed Recruitment, who were brilliant. They put me through excellent training. Uh, the team was just fantastic. It was so much fun. Um, and I loved it. And I realized, yeah, I'm really enjoying this. This is, this is what I wanna do and I wanna kinda stay in this area.
Speaker 1 00:02:44 Um, and then personal circumstances just meant I had to move to London and, and that's when I got a role, a new position, which was HR and recruitment. And that was the first time I got a taste of the HR side as well, which is just a whole nother, uh, ball game. And, um, and that company, they were, they were really kind. They put me through my C I P D and I was really lucky. I reported straight into the HR director and she was a great mentor for me. And that's kind of where I got all my employment law, knowledge and, and base around processes and structure and things. And obviously at the same time I was developing skills and recruitments. Um, and then from there I fell into the startup startup world. So I've found an opportunity in ed tech. So I thought, oh, education, which I've always loved and, and HR and recruitment, which I love.
Speaker 1 00:03:30 Uh, so I, I went to join a, a startup education and, uh, that was my first taste of, of working in that type of environment, which again, was just completely new and a huge learning curve for me of being very, very, you know, people first focused and, and approaching things in a different way. Um, and I loved it. And I was there for just over four years and we, we grew from I think 35 to 20 when I left. And um, it was such an amazing experience. It was the first time as well, I'd worked with an office abroad. Um, we had an office in Serbia, which was just yeah, a great experience as well for my career. And, uh, since then I've realized that the startup scale is where I to be and, um, I really thrived in that environment. I love the challenge, I love the pace and I, the autonomy that you get in terms of the changes that you can make and where you can go.
Speaker 1 00:04:21 And, uh, since then I've always stayed in, in, in this type of, uh, workplace. Um, so after Arbor, I did a bit of consulting and uh, that was great as well cause I got work with different startups, which, which was awesome. And then, uh, and then found Ben and, uh, loved the brand, loved the name, not the products. Uh, I met our co-founder and coo David and thought he was great and, uh, decided yeah, I'll go back in house for this. Let's, let's do it. And, uh, joined Ben at the end of, uh, last year and, and it's just been an amazing experience and yeah, I'm really pleased.
Speaker 2 00:04:57 It's a really interesting career journey actually, because, you know, everyone always says you fall into recruitment, right? But actually it seems like it was a bit of a, a bit of a, a no brainer move for you given, you know, given kind your, your background. I love that. I'm, I'm an person myself, so I training is exceptional
Speaker 2 00:05:18 Vouch. But, um, you know, I think that's really interesting. And I also really, um, it really resonates with me the, the startup mentality of, yeah, I can really just get in and do something and make a difference here. And I can really see that with what you've been doing. And I really, I think that's really interesting. So, um, obviously tons of experience now leading, um, people and talent. So education vouch for Unleashed and obviously Ben, um, alongside the wonderful Jonjo who used to work for us here at Seed Hijo. If you're watching for our listeners, could you just give us a quick overview of Ben as a
Speaker 1 00:05:57 Yeah, sure thing. Um, so we, we're kinda a mixture. We're mainly HR tech. We've got, we've got a bit of FinTech side to what we do as well. Um, but essentially what we are is a flexible benefits platform. So, um, through our platform organizations can, uh, enable their teams to have access to flexible benefit options. So it, it really suits the kind of current working world that we're living in, in terms of people want more choice. Flexibility is a huge topic, and flexibility is also been redefined over the last two years where it's not just about, you know, um, the hours that you work, but it's also where you work, how you work, uh, what what you have access to and you work, how you are rewarded, how are you compensated. Um, there are so many different elements to flexibility, um, and catering for more diverse workforces.
Speaker 1 00:06:54 And, and that's what Ben is about. It's about giving your people more choice, enabling them to pick and choose what benefits work for them, um, and having a, a benefit scheme that your employees actually engaged with. You know, companies spend anywhere between five to 15% of their, their annual payroll on, on benefits, and, uh, it's a huge cost, but a lot of the time employees aren't engaging with it, um, because it's not something they're interested in or it's difficult to engage with, or it's not relevant to them at that stage of their life. Uh, so that's what, that's what we're trying to, trying to sort out.
Speaker 2 00:07:27 I mean, obviously we're a little bit biased because we are big fans of Ben and your mission and we are users of the platform ourselves. So, um, I mean, we've seen that it's been really good to give the team, as you said, the autonomy and the power to choose, um, the benefits that actually mean something to them. Um, so just, just flipping back to kinda your, your journey and kind of how you've, um, been setting up after, you know, joining Ben. Um, must be coming on for a year now, right? Yeah. What have been your biggest learning so far, um, in your career journey today?
Speaker 1 00:08:05 I think the number one biggest learning, looking back on it all is <laugh>. There've been so many different points throughout my career where something has felt catastrophic, <laugh>, um, where, you know, you get really stressed cause you care about what you're doing and, uh, you know, you make a mistake or something doesn't quite go the way you want to. And, um, and looking back at all those points, uh, in my career so far where I've had those moments, um, it always works out and it was never as bad as I thought it was. And so I think for me, it, it's, um, in the grand scheme of things, like put put things into perspective and remember that actually in, in time it's gonna be okay. And when you look back on it, it'll be like, oh, actually that wasn't so bad. And actually when I have that approach now, you know, when things don't go wrong, when things go wrong, sorry, which they do regularly.
Speaker 1 00:09:01 Um, you know, I don't, I don't get so worked up as I used to. Uh, and I'm kind of much calmer as a result and actually are able to rectify things, um, much, much more easily. I think the other thing as well is, especially working in a startup for me, uh, is not to get too emotionally invested. Um, it's very easy in a startup, you know, when you're all pulling together in the same direction and you're working with people who have the same, uh, values and drive and, you know, you're all connected to this purpose. Um, it's very easy to kind of get sucked into that and, and to kinda make sacrifices in your personal life or, or kinda work yourself into the ground, um, because you're so focused on, on this journey that you're going on. And, and I think for me, when I took that step back, cause I went through that journey at Arbor and it actually, it wasn't good.
Speaker 1 00:09:49 Um, and it affected my work adversely even though it's, you know, I was trying to actually achieve the opposite. Um, but when I took that step back, I suddenly realized, I thought, oh, actually it's a lot easier, um, to get things done, and I'm more focused and more objective and, you know, I can make better decisions and I also, you know, know when to stop and enjoy my personal life. And that, that just resulted in, in good habits for me personally, um, and improvements in the way I work and how I saw things. So I think those are the two most important. If I was gonna add one more and squeeze one on is, uh, getting a mentor, like I've had a mentor, uh, for the last six years, and without my mentals I would've found the journey a lot harder than I did. Um, so I think if you don't have one, it's definitely worth like finding somebody, um, who can support you in your career, whatever stage you're at. I just think it's really valuable to have that time, uh, with somebody who can give you advice and talk things through with you and challenge you a bit and how you are thinking, um, especially in a startup where, you know, management practices might not be <laugh>, uh, quiet at the level you want them to be yet. Um, but yeah, definitely my mentors have been, uh, an amazing influence on my career
Speaker 2 00:11:05 That resonates with me a lot actually. I, I, I don't have an official mentor, but again, if he listens to this, he'll know who he is, um, <laugh>, and the person I use is my mentor. And he interestingly said something to me, um, a few years ago about, um, if you don't look after yourself and how are you meant to be looking after the things that you're doing? Um, and you know, as a, as a mother, that really resonates with me because my two year old, if I wasn't able to get up in the morning and look after myself and get ready and be able to like support him, then I wouldn't be able to do anything. It's exactly the same thing with work, right? As if you're not your best self in yourself, you're never gonna be your best self at work, right? But I, I do get the piece around like feeling a, a sense of responsibility and wanting to make things work. And you do end up putting yourself a a personal sacrifice for them, but ultimately, like if everyone in the business is working as hard as they can, but still allowing themselves to look after themselves mentally at the same time, then you, you're absolutely right. It's always gonna make a, a more positive experience for everybody.
Speaker 1 00:12:16 Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:12:18 In terms of pitfalls and mistakes that you see in early stage companies from a a people or a talent perspective, what does that look like for you?
Speaker 1 00:12:30 Yeah, I think there are two, two things here actually, um, <laugh> and they're both linked in a, in a weird way, but, uh, the first thing I'd say is not investing early enough in the right, uh, tools or mm-hmm or systems or setting up the right processes to enable the company to grow and succeed, but also en enable people to work in the most efficient way and, and being able to deliver their best. Um, and, and I've seen that so many times where companies haven't done that. And then there's a huge amount of people debt, um, which just builds and builds and builds and it just becomes a nightmare to fix later on. And you end up, um, you know, dedicate well wasting kind of time and energy trying to fix all these things, um, when you could be focusing on other things around engagement and wellbeing and, you know, growing the team and stuff, um, because you didn't actually set up the right processes from the very beginning.
Speaker 1 00:13:34 So it's always worth investing in those processes. And you get the right HR system in place, get an ATS system, like get the basic setup so that you, you have what you need in order to, to thrive and grow. Um, so that's the first thing. And then the second thing, which is like on the flip side is don't over complicate those processes. So I've been in some organizations where they've done that, but they have like, you know, 10 page guides on one, you know, on how to do an interview. And then like the performance review process is, uh, really complicated and very long-winded. And, you know, you're in a, you are in a small growing company and people are really busy and they're not gonna have time to read through and endless documentation. I think it's, it's thinking about your end user, like the people of the organization are your customer.
Speaker 1 00:14:24 You want them to have the best experience and you also want to give them the best opportunity to succeed and do the best they can. So I always have that mindset in, in whatever I'm setting up of thinking about what their experience will be. Um, and I always sense check things as well before I roll it out, you know, get other eyes on it. Um, is there anything I've missed or, you know, but yeah. But I think that's the other common pitfall I've seen go in. It's super messy. People don't really understand it, it's too complicated. Uh, no one really knows where to go for the source of in information and yeah, they've just kind of gone too far, uh, on the process spectrum. So it, it's a fine balance of getting those, those processes in place, but keeping them simple so that they encourage efficiency and, and, um, engagement with, with everybody.
Speaker 2 00:15:16 Absolutely. It's, it's an infrastructure thing, right? If if their foundations of the house aren't there, then you can't really build anything on it. But, you know, there's, I think, um, interestingly, like having been in a, a couple of smaller organizations, um, over my career is, and, and being someone who's come from a corporate environment originally myself, there is a tendency to want to try and get everything done at once, right? Cause you think, oh, well I had that when I was at Reed, for example. Like, they had 17 different things for this, and why don't we put these in? We're actually, you're absolutely right. If if we're still trying to build, you know, our first EMT detached, there's no point trying to build the foundations for a mansion when we're not quite there. It's just confuse lot quicker. Exactly. I'm following exactly analog today. I've like <laugh> <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:16:05 Very
Speaker 2 00:16:06 Obviously having creative day. Um, cool. So, um, in terms of, obviously you like the growth that at Ben has been amazing so far, um, which is awesome. So what does that look like in terms of new key focuses for you and the team next from a, a talent and a scaling perspective?
Speaker 1 00:16:29 Yeah. Um, so a lot's changed actually, uh, over the last six months it been, and I mean, even the last <laugh> three months, we've, uh, we've onboarded up to 15 people. Um, so we, you know, we've had a lot of new joiners coming. So the growth is really starting to ramp up and, uh, bless John Jo, uh, come in to help us out with all of this, uh, doing a sterling job. Um, and with, with this growth, we're starting to see a real shift. So there's a couple of things. So one is roles are starting to specialize now. So, you know, startups, you get people who do multiple roles in ones. So suddenly we'll do a bit of office management and they'll do a bit of finance and bit of talents and all kinds of stuff. Um, and then you get to a size where rather than, you know, being a jack of all trades and a master of none, you start to actually, we need to get the masters in.
Speaker 1 00:17:25 Um, cause we need to start specializing and, and creating more ownership around roles and responsibilities and, uh, making sure that we're, we're performing the highest standard that we can. And, and we're just at that stage now. So we've actually hired a few new teams. Um, we have a new layer of management that has just come in literally in the last, uh, three to four weeks in the business. Um, and it's just a really crucial time where we need to make sure that the team are given the, the right, uh, I say tool systems and processes, my key words, um, <laugh>, but making sure that they are enabled to succeed in what they're doing. Um, and then on, on the other side of all of this is making sure that we're keeping a sense track of the pulse of the organization. Because as you grow inevitably your culture shifts, um, and develops and changes.
Speaker 1 00:18:16 And, you know, we've hired some amazing people. We've got a really diverse team, which, uh, I'm just super, super proud of and, and they're wonderful. Um, but we know we need to make sure that we we're keeping a check of how people are feeling cause it's a lot of change in a really short period of time. Um, and we do that through a variety of different means. But I think in the immediate future, like our key focus is, uh, training for the line management that has come in. Um, so that they have that structure to, uh, to be able to support their teams. So looking at things like one to ones, how do you do interviews? How do you do onboarding? How do you support your team if they come to you with a, you know, with an issue they have, whether it's a work issue or a personal issue.
Speaker 1 00:19:02 So giving the managers the tools to be able to have those conversations. Um, easy and difficult ones. Streamlining our hiring process as well is really important. Um, and then making sure that we're, we're doing regular surveys to keep a sense of how people are feeling. So we do this in several ways at Ben. Um, we've got a quarterly, uh, pulse survey that we send out team. Uh, we have an onboarding feedback survey, which we send out off to two weeks when people have joined. We get fresh feedback on that. Um, we've got a survey for hiring managers to review the hiring process each time they hire somebody. So is it, we're all constantly asking questions and getting feedback from people as much as possible. And I think as we grow, a lot of you keeping an eye on that level of contact and you know, what's scalable, what's sustainable, what's working, what's not working, um, but it's just making sure that, that we're keeping touch with this, uh, so that we can continue the growth in a healthy way. Um, and that we're not turning in a direction we don't wanna turn, turn onto, but we don't realize it's too late if you know, whatever. Um, so that's kind of our immediate focus. Um, so giving them the skills and, uh, checking the pulse of the organization.
Speaker 2 00:20:13 So I mean, obviously, uh, you know, your product itself is hugely centered around employee engagement and satisfaction and, um, you, you yourselves as an organization seem to be exactly the <laugh> same way, um, naturally, but what, what for you would be like the key factors of this? So if you were, um, fostering them in a new startup environment, obviously na naturally, culturally, Ben <laugh> does this as part of that anyway, but for a, for a a newer startup, what would be the kind of key factors
Speaker 1 00:20:46 Of employee engagement they need to consider, do you think? Yeah, I think there are three like key areas, um, to somebody's experience in the workplace. And I think one is the type of work that they're doing. So that's kind of on the organizations who have a really streamlined, um, and robust recruitment process. So making sure that you're assessing people correctly so you're putting the right skill sets into the right roles, um, and the right motivations. You know, um, somebody's not, they can have all the perks in the world, but they're not gonna be engaged. They're doing a job they don't actually enjoy or they're doing a job that's too difficult for them. So I think that's really important. And then I think the second one is like how people actually work. So what tools are they given to do their job? Um, what are the processes they have to follow?
Speaker 1 00:21:39 Uh, is there too much red tape, um, in their role? So making sure that they feel like they're enabled to actually succeed in their role. You know, you hire somebody with great skills, the match is great, they can do it, but then if they're constantly blocked by by certain issues, then they're not gonna, they're not gonna be able to engage or feel motivated. And then I think the third one, which is obviously important is your culture and your, um, your people and, and the way your, your business works. Um, and that's things like, you know, how do you, how do you support your teams? What do you, what do you give them to, um, enjoy and develop, uh, their work while they're with you? Um, how do you, how do you communicate with your team, um, and keep 'em up to date with things? How do you, how do you make sure that people feel respected and valued and that people's voices are heard?
Speaker 1 00:22:32 Uh, you know, ensuring that people have psychological safety so they can speak up about anything that they want to and, um, give feedback and they feel supported. So it's just having that working environment that people generally enjoy coming to work each day cuz they love the people they work with and they love the environment, um, that they work in as well. So the three key key things, the type of work, how they work and, and the culture piece, um, and uh, that side of it. And I think, um, when it comes to co to what you said before about like, you know, <laugh>, Ben and, and what we do, um, we are now hiring more and more diverse workforces. So more and more like people want different things. And sometimes that can be really challenging because, you know, some people, um, want one benefit over another or some people prefer to work from home, some people prefer to work in an office.
Speaker 1 00:23:27 And trying to please like lots of different, uh, people with different needs and wants and at different stages of life can be a massive challenge. You know, I don't think I've spoken to any people either who said, yeah, we've nailed hybrid working. Um, it's a really, it's a really difficult one, but, um, but I think the lesson from it is like listen to to your, listen to the people and listen to what they want and take it into account when you are, um, you know, implementing your benefits, uh, setting up your processes, organizing your, uh, team socials, you know, all those kind of things. Um, and just making sure that you are creating an inclusive environment, um, and a space where people feel like they can speak to you and, and tell you they're not happy. And of course, going back to what I said in the previous question as well, keeping pulse with that engagement is really important. Um, you know, we're, we're even talking about, uh, we're getting to the stage now where, you know, we're looking at potentially using a system to kinda have a more regular pulse check, um, as well just cause quarterly is a bit spaced out and it kinda worked, worked fine when we're small, but now we're getting bigger or, you know, need to kinda keep check the pulse a bit more regularly. Yeah. But yeah, those are the things I'd say.
Speaker 2 00:24:39 Yeah, I mean that, that's something we've started doing, um, more recently in terms of, we have like a, like a mini ul check once a month on a specific topic and then on a quarterly basis we do like an overall business one and it, it's actually working really well because we can actually kind of specific feedback a specific that we know about rather than being just a kind of 30 question <laugh> after all the stuff, um, are doing. So let's, let's talk about the, you talked about, um, you started talking about your inclusivity and obviously that's, um, so incredibly important. So you, you talked about the sense of, you know, psychological safety, um, incredibly important. It comes to the engagement and satisfaction piece, um, especially as we're trying to, you know, um, build a, a a diverse organization here. So, um, something that I've seen you talk about quite a lot online is, um, is women's health. Um, and I know that's something you're incredibly passionate about. Um, how do you, I know you've probably answered this in, in many, uh, things online, but um, for our listeners, how do you feel companies should be supporting, um, women's health in the workplace?
Speaker 1 00:25:50 Yes. Uh, this is a huge passion, very broad Love it of yes, <laugh>. Um, I think I'm gonna start just, just by explaining it a bit to the audience about where, where the passion comes from. Cause I think it helps ex set the scene a bit, but, uh, I, I have, I've had always had a very privileged life, you know, um, I was sent to boarding school in the uk, like I've never had to face any discrimination that I've had everything organized for me throughout my life. So I've always had a very privileged life. I've never, never worried about anything or had a protective characteristic. And, um, and then I got pregnant and I suddenly, uh, throughout that journey of pregnancy, um, from the extreme nausea, <laugh>, um, and struggling on a day-to-day basis and it was debilitating for me and I found that hard, uh, to actually, uh, and then Covid hit, my son was born.
Speaker 1 00:26:49 Um, and yours, your child of being just over two, I sure you had the same year as well. November, yeah. Fun times being a parent during, um, and yeah, and then actually, you know, going through, uh, labor and, and the experience of becoming a parent for the first time and for the first time in my life, um, I was exposed to vulnerability and, um, to what it's like to have a protected characteristic and face, uh, the challenges, uh, that can come with that. And what I experience is nothing compared to what others, uh, go through on a day to day, um, basis as well. But it just really opened my eyes and raised awareness around how much there is still to do on lots of different topics, um, when it comes to, uh, diversity, equality, inclusion, belongings. Um, but my focus personally, because it's impacted me so much personally has been, has been on women's health.
Speaker 1 00:27:50 Um, so, so that, that kinda where, where this is all driven from. Um, and I've had various, um, it's impacted my life in various ways, uh, since I started this journey. But I think the key thing is where companies should begin is, well two things. One, fostering and enabling a culture where people are able to speak about these topics and they feel comfortable talking about them. And I think that is just so important and, and raising awareness on what these topics are and the leadership team needs to be bought into this and they need to support it because if they don't, that, that culture and that psychological safety just will not filter through the organization. Um, you know, women go through a lot, uh, periods every month, menopause, we all go through that. Um, fertility treatments, I have several friends who are going on that journey and it's a painful one.
Speaker 1 00:28:50 Um, and it takes up a lot of time and emotion. Uh, and then obviously pregnancy, which is a very long, long journey and we're not very well supported by the government in this country when it comes to that compared to other, uh, countries in Europe. Um, so I do think, I mean, I think the government has a long way to go and, um, I dunno if you've seen much of the mummies and, uh, the amazing work that Pregnant and Screwed has been doing, um, massive, massive fans, uh, pregnant and screwed. Um, but I do think that the, a long way for the company still to go to also support that and be leaders, you know, companies do play a kind of link to the politics of, of society and, and, and how we behave and how we view things. Um, and, and I just think it's such an important topic that we haven't done enough on and it's, it's making progress, but it's a bit slow and I'd love to see more. And, um, I I just think, uh, you know, if companies haven't started thinking about it, that they should be.
Speaker 2 00:29:51 So, I mean, some, some people listening, they may feel these types of topics are maybe a little bit, a little bit more difficult to bring up with their companies and that is, um, dependent on a number of factors, their own personal beliefs, how they've been brought up, the culture of their organization. You know, like there's lots of different pieces that will affect that. But do you have any suggestions or, um, maybe recommendations for people, leaders out there who want to raise awareness, um, of women's health, uh, amongst their own businesses or teams? How, how they should approach that conversation or how they could encourage the wider business to make that a priority?
Speaker 1 00:30:33 Yeah, I think there's a few things. Um, like first of all, it, it's not, you don't have to tackle it all at once. Like it's a huge topic and you don't have to be an expert either. Um, you know, these topics are even periods, you know, within that there are so many different conditions that, that people can have and suffer and side effects and, and all kinds of things. Um, you don't have to be an expert to, to start the conversation to help raise, raise awareness around it. So I think that's the first thing. Cause I think otherwise it could be quite daunting of like, where do I even begin? And especially if you, you know, if, if you are male and you haven't experienced any of these things, um, it could be even more daunting. Um, so I just think it's taking it, taking it one step at a time.
Speaker 1 00:31:19 Um, and any step is a step forward, right? So <laugh> uh, doing something is better than nothing. Um, and I think when it comes to the business, like at the end of the day, a huge majority of your workforce are going to be women in, in most cases, hopefully. Um, and all women have periods, all women will go through menopause. A lot of women will go through the experience of, of pregnancy and the complications that can come with that, like pregnancy loss and, uh, you know, the trauma of, of going through labor for some, uh, and, uh, the challenge of, of becoming a mother for the first time or, or even just a second and third time. So I think it's always a bit of a challenge, um, fertility treatment and, you know, one in one in four pregnancies and in miscarriages. So it, it's a common thing.
Speaker 1 00:32:13 The, these are all incredibly common and there's so much data and statistics which show the impact that it can have on women going through that. You know, things like, uh, depression, uh, lack of productivity, um, you know, resigning because they can't cope or they don't feel supported, uh, higher absent, higher absent rates because they're not talking to their employer or they're embarrassed or, you know, they, they dunno what to do. They don't feel like they've got the right support. Um, so many different things. And these all have a knock on effect on other things within your organization, like lack of women in leadership positions. There is so much evidence which demonstrates that diversity and leadership, and it's not just about sexuality of gender, I should say. Um, but for this example, you know, diversity in leadership has been shown to have a huge positive impact on revenue generation for businesses.
Speaker 1 00:33:10 So getting that diversity in place is so important. And I still see time and time again, the C-suite are all men, <laugh>, um, you know, all white men. So that, that needs to change and, and we won't see this, this change quickly enough if we don't push forward with, with the support and these conversations and enabling women to feel more empowered, uh, to drive themselves forward in their careers, forward in, in the workplace, and to have the support that they need. Um, and I do think, uh, you know, having mental health support for all organizations I just think is so important as well. But yeah, I would say small steps to start with it is really important. You get the leadership team on board and it might help if you're struggling with that, to maybe to seek advice from an external consultant. There are lots out there.
Speaker 1 00:34:01 Um, I recently did some work with somebody called Claire who, Claire Knox from See Her Thrive. She does a lot of work on, on this kinda stuff and she's brilliant. Um, so, you know, if you're struggling, like reach out to her, um, she can give some advice and maybe come and do a talk for you to help kick it off. Uh, but it's things you can do, you know, a little lunch and learn on a topic or even writing a po you know, write a policy. It's a start. Uh, we've got some policy templates from the then website, which we're, we're adding to all the time. People can have a look there. Um, attending webinars, helping to, you know, help yourself, help, help raise awareness in the organization, sharing it with a team. Perhaps other people might be interested, anyone from the team might be interested to help get involved and, and drive the conversation forward as well.
Speaker 1 00:34:48 I think, you know, I did a post quite recently about pregnancy loss after suffering a mis miscarriage earlier this year. And I had so many people messaged me directly. A few of them I I work with who work in other organizations who said, I just went through this three weeks ago and I haven't said anything cause I dunno what to say or, you know, like, I don't, I don't feel I can. And, and to me that's where it's not, it's not a good place. You know, we're not in a good place. It should be a choice. And if they want, if they wanna speak about it, then they should have that support from the organization to, you know, be enable to have those conversations. So, um, so that's kind of where, where my head is at when it comes to, uh, <laugh>, where they can, where they can start to kick it all off.
Speaker 2 00:35:33 No, really some really interesting recommendations there. And again, a lot, a lot kind of resonates. I, I know that when I was going through, um, pregnancy, I had a very difficult pregnancy. I had an exceptional employer who funnily enough did have a <laugh> CSU of white males, but they were all very kind of understanding and I felt like I was able to have that conversation with them because they were open with me to talk about it. But I know that I've worked for other organizations where I wouldn't have felt so comfortable talking about it. So, you know, those people who say, oh, well it's up to the person to speak up if they wanna speak up, if, if we don't foster the culture of enabling people to be open with these kind of things. But it's down to the employer as well, right? It, it's a, it's a two way thing and it, it does feel like there are, you know, there's a lot more conversation happening about this, a lot of more people speaking up in public forums just as obviously we're today. Um, so this is, this is my, I'll pie in the sky question. So <laugh>, what does the, what does the future look like for women's health in the workplace? So what, where would you hope we were in a year's time, a few years time from now in this regard?
Speaker 1 00:36:46 Yeah, I, I would love to see a future where, um, so many things <laugh>, but uh, I'll start with the, the pregnancy one. That's why direct kind of puzzle experience. But I think I'd love to see a future where pregnancy loss support, um, and general support during pregnancy as well, for those who suffer from, from the, the sickness is a norm in organizations. Um, you know, if everybody has it and you, and it's an expectation, you know, like you have a disciplinary policy, you have a pregnancy loss policy, um, I would love to see that being the norm. I would love to see equal parental leave across the board, and I think our government have a duty of care and responsibility to push that forward. Um, I think two weeks for a father to take time off to bond with his child and support his partner is just not good enough.
Speaker 1 00:37:36 Um, so I'd love, I'd love to see that change and again, to be the norm as well where, uh, equal partners take leave to look after their baby. So that's, they can both feel unable to return to and feel supported and in turn, you know that and children get them the care and that they, in that first of their life, they're so and vulnerable. Um, so I would love to see that. And, and I would also just love to see, uh, still now so many friends and peers I know I feel embarrassed to, to bring up to certain conversations. Um, or, you know, they get told, you know, don't tell anybody, uh, kind of thing. Um, or they, they stay at home and then they're suffering from anxiety and depression because they're being massively affected by severe pain that they're having for endometriosis, for example.
Speaker 1 00:38:28 And, and they're not talking about it. I would, I would love a future where it's completely normal for somebody to speak about those conversations and, and to feel, they don't feel judged, they don't feel scared and they don't feel embarrassed, and they can openly speak about that, and that is the norm and it's okay. And different companies will support people in different ways. Um, but people know, you know, they know that the support is there and know that they can talk about it if they want to. And I think that just comes down to the whole raising awareness, um, educating ourselves, um, supporting each other and, and driving forward this change in the workplace. Like we are all human beings and we all, you know, deserve to be given the opportunity to speak about things that, that might be making us feel sad or uncomfortable or in pain or, um, you know, whatever the, the experiences that we're going through. Um, so I, I would love that. And as I said before, mental health support are being standard, um, benefit for organizations. I just think that's really our mental health is so precious and, um, you know, we were going through, we've been through a lot these last three years in the world. Um, and, and I do think having that support for people is really important and, and people proactively taking care of that as well.
Speaker 2 00:39:50 Thank you for speaking. So on this topic, I know that it's, it's, it's something that some people still find quite an awkward thing to talk about personally. I'm a little maybe too much an open book talk about anything, but, um, it's, it's really refreshing to hear you talk about it so kind of openly and, and thank you for sharing such personal details with us today. It's, it's really appreciated to bring it to life. So thank you for that.
Speaker 1 00:40:17 Thanks for letting me do it. And, um, you know, I'm really grateful even where I am now at there, the leadership team are very supportive of these conversations happening. And a lot of people I've spoken to, they're more forums like this, as you say, which I, we used talk about it. And I just think the more we can do this, the better and I'm excited by it because I think it is the change and the, and the drive that we're starting to see. Um, so yeah, fingers cross that future, future will come.
Speaker 2 00:40:44 Absolutely. Absolutely. We're behind you on it. Um, so just, just mindful of time, um, I just have one final question out. Um, and I may be able to guess this based on what you've, you've said today, but, um, in terms of a, a value or a thought or a phrase that you tend to, to live by your, your mantra, what would that be?
Speaker 1 00:41:08 Am I allowed to ask you what, what your guess would be
Speaker 2 00:41:11 <laugh>? No,
Speaker 1 00:41:14 Um, I think for me the biggest, the biggest thing that has actually had the biggest impact on my career is, is no quotes or, or phrase, which is just like, it seems, it seems bad now, it's gonna be okay. Like, and, and it's such a simple thing, but every time I go through a difficult period of my life, whether it's in my personal life or my work life, and I think it's come with experience as well of just going on this journey a few times now, um, but I always kind of run that through my head of like, remember that time when this happened and you felt so awful and then three weeks later you were fine. And that's, that's kind of how I approach things. And I, and I would think back to that time, I'm like, oh yeah, that was a really bad time and yes, everything was ok.
Speaker 1 00:41:59 And it doesn't mean, you know, especially if it's something personal or, or grief or a loss of a loved one or anything like that, it doesn't mean that you forget about it or that it doesn't hurt, but it's just the, the way I approach things now is the feeling you have now, whether it's anxiety or fear or worry or stress, it will pass and it will develop into something else in its own way, but it, it's not as bad as you think it is right now. And, and that's kind of how I go forward. And as a result, I do not get as stressed as I once did with things. Um, I don't get as affected, uh, by things. And I think I'm much more resilient, uh, in terms of how I, how I respond to certain situations. And um, and I'm also just really grateful, like I have so much to be grateful for and I always remember that as well, um, with everything, uh, that happens. So yeah, that's kind of how I, uh, how I plow through <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:43:00 No, I love that. And my mine was gonna be a multi python quote was gonna be the always look on the bright side of life because that's what, like how your, cause that's kind how you whole conversation is. Some really rubbish stuff happens, but if we face up to it and we take it in our stride and we talk about it and we're open about it, then I, if we have more, more hands to support, more eyes to look at what we're doing, um, then we're gonna get through it, right?
Speaker 1 00:43:28 Absolutely. Yeah, that quote sums it up perfectly <laugh> much more succinctly than I did it <laugh>. I haven't,
Speaker 2 00:43:34 I haven't lost it quite yet. Um, it, it's been fab talking to you today. Um, Lisia, um, thank you so much again for, for being so open and candid and, um, it's been really interesting and I'm sure that our listeners will, will get some kind of really good recommendations out of this, really looking forward to following your growth journey with Ben.
Speaker 1 00:43:53 Thank you so much for having me and it's been great and I've love the questions. It's been a real, a real mixture and it's, uh, <laugh> a self-reflections, but just, uh, the opportunity, it's great.
