Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 It, it really is about the people. And, um, you know, I think you need to find the people that really believe in our, in the values and in the work and the mission that we have. Uh, because as, as I've seen in the last years, that the ones that really believe in, you know, what they're doing, um, and the purpose of their job and the purpose of the company, they stay and they flourish. And it's sometimes so amazing to see what people can do, um, and what people are able to do if they believe in something.
Speaker 2 00:00:36 So delighted today to be joined by, um, in various Anne Hansen on today's episode of scaling So far. Um, it's gonna be a really great conversation and I'm, I'm looking forward to getting stuck in. Um, so welcome Anne.
Speaker 0 00:00:48 Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:00:49 Um, so getting things started, are you able to share a little bit of a backstory about you please? Just your journey to where you are today.
Speaker 0 00:00:57 Yeah, of course. Um, well I stumbled across Envera, um, and I joined them as, as a second employee actually, which was an awesome experience, I have to say. Uh, I went there for digital marketing and I think it took me like two weeks to do so much more than digital marketing, which is, you know, what you usually do if you started a startup, uh, as one of the first employees. And, um, yeah, it was, it was such a great journey. Um, but at some point we grew and we grew so fast, uh, that our founder came to me and he was like, we need someone for the people team. Um, do you want to, do you want to do that? Uh, I, I thought about it <laugh> because, you know, I went for digital marketing, so it was a very different, uh, area that I wanted, that I, that he asked me to, to join. And, um, yeah, I thought about it and I, I said, yes, that's where I am today.
Speaker 2 00:01:54 So you, so you came from digital marketing before, like that transition, um, kind of, I wanna touch upon that a little bit later, if that's okay. Um, and dig into that kinda, um, experience. Cuz obviously that is a, that's a big, that's a big switch, right? From digital marketing to
Speaker 0 00:02:09 <laugh>. Very interesting
Speaker 2 00:02:10 People. Um, let's just dig into, um, inviro a little bit. First though, um, one of the top 100 energy startups globally, um, and I saw have been announced as one of the 2022 Europe Climate Tech 200, which is again for Yes. Um, um, so can you, can you just tell us a little bit more about the company's mission?
Speaker 0 00:02:29 Yes. Well, our mission is to make solar radically easy for businesses. But let me dig into that a little bit. Uh, why we have that mission. Well, at the very beginning, um, our driving force was to find, uh, ways to allow companies who didn't have the means to go solar. Um, so for example, they didn't have the premises to, to build a solar system or they didn't have the funds to acquire system. So we went into the market and, uh, we found what was stopping them to go solar, but also why they wanted to. And there are actually several reasons you wouldn't have thought <laugh>, but it's, for example, high energy comes up soon and you know, the electricity costs that come with it, especially nowadays. Um, but also they wanted to reduce their CO2 footprint, you know, get a higher E S G rating or simply improve the brand image.
Speaker 0 00:03:23 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so if you look at the B2B market, it's a very, at least in Germany, it's a very underserved market. There are a lot of B2C providers, um, but there really are not that many for b2, b2b. So, um, but then you look at the pressure that companies get from sati society, uh, employees, um, regulation. And, uh, we did wonder like, why is there no proper offering? Because if companies look into the solar market, they hit a wall very fast. Um, so we wanted to make sure that every company really can go solar, um, without the hassle <laugh>. Um, so we provide a 360 degree angle, um, of service. Uh, we, we, um, you know, we, we consult them on what kind of option they should go into, like it's olpex or CapEx or should they invest themselves or maybe we own the system. Uh, and they just simply provide the premises.
Speaker 0 00:04:27 We implement, uh, we, we do the implementation. So we have our own construction site workers own electricians, um, that build the system, but it doesn't even stop there. We also offer PPAs for afterwards, we take care of the, um, of the system for the next 20 years, or <laugh> whatsoever. Um, so yes, you could say we are on a MA mission, uh, to make solar radically easy. And to give you maybe another example is the real estate fund market. It is a market that, for example, I mean, they own, for example, the logistic halls, which are huge. Um, but if you look at them, most of them don't have solar systems. And that is due to, um, the misunderstanding or misconception, um, that there's a tax reason why they don't do it. And we really did give up, and I think it took us a year to come up with a concept that allows also them to go, um, go solar and, uh, we are, um, onboarding more and more real estate funds as we speak. So that's a market that we are, um, very excited about.
Speaker 2 00:05:37 Interesting. I mean, I, I was having a, I was having a nose on your, your website before I call today, and it amazing, like, when I think about solar panels, I think about, you know, three on your roof, not like entire buildings worth. It's just massive, isn't it? And it's, it's a real kinda one-stop shop and you've kind of carved out a real niche in the
Speaker 0 00:05:54 Industry. Yes. And I mean, this is making a huge difference. If, if you look at the market, 80% of the energy, um, that's being used comes from companies. So we need them to go solar in order to get, you know, to to, to do our, uh, to stop global warming <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:06:10 So I mean, an interesting move then for you from that digital marketing to, um, to head of people, because obviously, you know, it's quite a unique proposition that you were selling and maybe something a little bit more straightforward than having to transfer to this head of people role. Um, and obviously it was just two people now and and now it's about 50,
Speaker 0 00:06:28 Is it? No, we're actually, I mean, this is now we're 80 and I think next year we're about 200. So yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2 00:06:35 Really fast growth. Okay. So what was that, what was that, um, kinda driving force for that move from marketing to, to people? What, what was your Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:06:46 Well, as I was saying at the beginning, um, I was doing a lot. So I was also doing operations. Um, so, you know, I was, I was telling our construction type guys, you know, when to go where, and I was ordering stuff to, yeah, like the solar panels to be there on time. Um, I was doing also marketing of course, and I was also doing sales because we need <laugh>. That's also something that you need a startup. Um, so I was doing so much and I got to know everyone at the company. And, um, so when, when our founder measure asked me if this is something that I'd be interested in, I really did think about it because yes, marketing, you know, but that experience also helps me, um, as well as the sales one, um, and understanding what our business is all about. Um, so I'm building up that people department around our company. So I'm not looking into a lot of theories, but I, I think I understand what our company and its values are at its core.
Speaker 2 00:07:49 So when, when we say you went from marketing to people, you didn't really, you went from marketing, sales, operations, logistics, bit of everything. And now you are actually more niche than you were before, which is quite interesting one. So would've been your kinda learnings along the way. Cause obviously this is your first people role as such, right? So quite a big learning curve for you.
Speaker 0 00:08:12 I, no, yeah, you could, you could definitely say that it was a huge and very fast learning curve. Um, but a good one. Um, what, what I learned is, um, and I think that's why we call it, and a lot of companies are, are starting to the to do that as well. People and culture, culture is so important and, um, you, you really need to nurture it with every new employee joining the culture shifts itself a little, right? So it, it's, you know, it's, it's the people mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh, something that is super important to me is the recruitment pro process, because especially what I'm saying, right, every person that is joining is, is doing its part. They're, they're joining, they're, they're bringing some new culture maybe, or aspects. Um, so good recruitment process and already finding the people that fit to our values and our culture is super important. Um, as well as, you know, the i'd I'd say the typical that you look at the flat hierarchies, um, the values, the flexibility that you have, for example, take me as an example, right? I, I started in digital marketing and I ended up as head of people in the culture. And you need to give people the room to develop and see, you know, maybe, um, they, they have more interest than what they came for and maybe you need to check if, if at a different position they can flourish even more.
Speaker 2 00:09:41 And, and that wasn't that, that was over, uh, been there four years, right?
Speaker 0 00:09:45 Oh, yeah, four and a half now, <laugh>, we're actually celebrating our five year anniversary to, to today of the company. So four and a half years I've been here.
Speaker 2 00:09:58 Wow. And, and so much change of you in that time.
Speaker 0 00:10:01 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:10:02 I mean, I guess from a, from a cultural perspective, you're absolutely right. It will, it will kind of change, um, as more and more people join the business, especially as it was so little. And you must have seen such a, such a change in that. And I think that's, you know, something that some companies struggle with, um, is actually scaling that culture, keeping it true, yes. To the company and the vision that was from the leadership from the beginning, um, and making sure that there is still some element to that carrying through, even as you bring kind of more people into the organization. So what's been your approach to that? Is there what, however you, you found <laugh>, what have you found to be effective in trying to keep that
Speaker 0 00:10:43 Culture? Yes, I think it's, it, it really is about the people. And, um, you know, I think you need to find the people that really believe in our, in the values and in the work and the mission that we have. Uh, because as, as I've seen in the last years that the ones that really believe in, you know, what they're doing, um, and the purpose of their job and the purpose of the company, they stay and they flourish. And it's sometimes so amazing to see what people can do, um, and what people are able to do. They believe in something, um, they go the extra mile <laugh>. Um, and it's, I think it's about, uh, yeah, finding those people, uh, and nurturing them, um, but also create a mirror, um, what we are about, um, and reflecting it back to them. Um, and we do that, for example, through, you know, events, um, teamwork, uh, for example, cross, um, cross-functional teams, we have mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, um, and we do things really, we do them together. Um, and of course, diversity is something that, uh, we look at and it's, it's, um, we, we have such a diverse team, I can tell you it goes from really culture, um, but also age. And, uh, yeah. And it's, it's amazing. We, we learn from each other and, um, it does boost everything.
Speaker 2 00:12:07 That's always really good to see, right? That there's a, there's a, um, acceptance of everyone in the organization, and especially if you're bringing in people.
Speaker 0 00:12:16 Yes. And I have to say, especially that age part, I think it's funny how, um, a lot of startups call themselves very diverse, but then if you look at the age, it's usually like the mid 30 people. But, uh, we, we, we, we just hire by, you know, as I was saying, like values and if they fit the company, and that's really all that counts.
Speaker 2 00:12:41 Do, do you see, um, like when you look back to a few years ago, like, can you see a common theme from where you started? Like is there, is there a common theme in that culture, or do you think it's really shifted depending
Speaker 0 00:12:56 On you? I don't think it's, it shifted that much because I think our culture is about, you know, rolling up your sleeves, doing what you can, not being too important, not feeling like you're, you know, this is not my job. Um, not creating silos. Um, and, uh, I think this is, as I was saying, like we've, we've obviously had employees. I also do mistakes. <laugh> sometimes even in the hiring process, we sometimes had people joining that, uh, broaden, uh, I call it corporate culture. Um, but that wasn't really fitting and, uh, we departed from each other because at some, like, it really doesn't work. And, um, I think it's important that also the leadership really, you know, lives those values that we have. Um, and uh, yeah, I think I truly don't think that, uh, the culture changed that much our offices did. Um, but you know, at the beginning we were living in an apartment which had, uh, um, we're working, we're living there, but working in an apartment which had even a shower, um, it had a washing machine. It was, it was literally, it was an apartment, uh, used as, as an office. Um, and now we have, I don't even know how many spare meters, um, 1,500 or something. Um, and I'm already looking at new offices, so that's changing, but I don't think the culture is changing that much.
Speaker 2 00:14:21 Yeah, I love that. It's like, well, we have to put in the hours. If we're a startup, we might as well sleep here and wash our clothes. I mean, that's been, that's been a massive period of growth then two, two to 80 in four and a half, five years mm-hmm. <affirmative> is, is
Speaker 0 00:14:40 And out growing even faster. So <laugh>. Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:14:42 It's super exciting. Um, I mean, you, you talked about from, um, one of the aspects of your, your culture is a kind of, kind of roll your sleeves up and get on with it mentality, which is, which is great. But I mean, as you've taken the, the company through that high, high growth period, are there any other aspects of your culture do you feel, that have been kind of contributed to that fast scale and, and success of the business so far?
Speaker 0 00:15:07 Yeah, I think as you were saying, really the rolling up your sleeves and not being too important for anything, um, is key. It's, it really is, I think, and to break the silos, once they are being transformed, you have to watch out for those silos. And we've had that because, um, I mean, information, uh, flow is key, uh, for, for no for breaking those cells or for not being created. And as I was saying, right, we were, at the beginning, we were in this apartment, we would just shout each to each other, the information. You would just, I, I would hear our founder, Nicole and I, I'd already know what's happening, but once we moved to the next office, it had two rooms and already information <laugh> was, uh, yeah, I mean there, there was some, some information, lack and Silas were starting to, to be formed.
Speaker 0 00:15:59 And, uh, we broke them down as we saw it. And, uh, you know, we had to change stuff in our company. Um, for example, like I was saying, like all these all hands meetings, that's such such a start up thing, <laugh>, right? But, um, you, you really have to have it because otherwise you are getting people lost. Um, and they, and they feel it, they feel lost at some point, don't know what's going on you, and you need to keep everyone aligned and get them the information that, that they need to have. And I think that's very important and it's something that you should always look out for. We have, for example, even between the leaders, uh, in our company, we had the problem of sometimes, you know, not, not talking properly to each other, but we created this leadership dinner that we have once a month where, you know, it's a, it's a good atmosphere to talk about whatever you feel like, because if you're in the office, you always talk about work and you gotta start also talking about private stuff and other, other things, uh, apart from work. So we, we have that leadership dinner, um, and we have offsites and all of that to keep the information fluent, but also keep the team as a team.
Speaker 2 00:17:11 And that's a really important thing, right? It, it comes from the, the top down. Cause if the leadership don't feel connected, right, and they don't feel like they're, they're a team, then how is the rest of the business gonna gonna do? So, um, I mean, I know that you're really, you're really passionate about that in terms of leadership and, and hiring and nurturing great leaders into the business. Um, so for you or maybe for Invi as a business, what makes a a great leader in that fast growth environment?
Speaker 0 00:17:40 Um, I think it's listening to your employees, to the people, to their demands and contributions. Um, trusting them very important and being aware of human nature. Um, and uh, yeah, I think that's very important. Uh, also not coming up with, you know, preset rules. I hate that <laugh>. Um, but also being aware of that you are a leader, like people are watching what you're doing, <laugh>. Um, so you really have to be aware on, you can, you know, you can preach whatever you feel like, but if you don't live it, you know, there is no point. I think that also makes a great leader, that he's a great role model.
Speaker 2 00:18:23 I love that. But how that's, it's a difficult, right, because the, um, what you talked about there is kind of behaviors, values, yeah. Intuition, you know, flexibility. How do you hire for that? Because that's not something you can just, you know, get proof of a certificate. I am an intuitive human. Like, I don't know. I know. Like how do you, how do you hire for that? How do you do that in your presence?
Speaker 0 00:18:50 Um, we, our founder came up with that. Um, he usually has the first, uh, interaction goes with, uh, with them to lunch. Uh, we have an application if we find someone that could fit, uh, usually via our network. Um, cause I think that works best. Um, we have like a team decision if we're, we are a team and, um, if we hire someone as a head or a C level, uh, we take a group decision
Speaker 2 00:19:19 I'd, I'd love to see how that kind of scales as you get bigger and bigger. Right.
Speaker 0 00:19:23 Well, I don't think we should get too many head offs, right? Or sea levels. Like at some point it gets ridiculous. I think, um, <laugh>, we need people to also not only lead the departments, but do the, you know, the <laugh> <laugh>. Uh, so we're very cautious on, um, on that kind of hiring. Very cautious. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:46 And I, I guess a lot of startups fall into that trap, right? It's everyone gets ahead of title of it's exciting and then <laugh>, there's no one to do that
Speaker 0 00:19:54 <laugh>. It's like, ok, nice. You're head of that department, you're on your own, so, you know, do the work <laugh>. So yeah, it's, uh, yeah, especially I, I'm not a big fan of titles, so, um, I think it's just about, you know, getting the work done
Speaker 2 00:20:10 With your, with your, with your title now with your <laugh> people and culture title. Um, I guess your part of your role will be to support those leaders new and, um, and previous in, in, in the business. So how, how do you, how do you think a head of people and culture does that best within a fast grow business? How do you best support those leaders?
Speaker 0 00:20:35 Yeah, I mean, I think from the people department or people team, um, leaders get a framework, right? They get, you know, I can, I can support them as in giving them a framework and telling, like telling them our values on, but it's, at the end of the day, it's about the leaders, you know, doing it. Um, so I can support them with systems or, um, tools. For example, I saw that, uh, especially in our operations unit, we were hiring a lot and, uh, our, our head of project management came up to me and he was like, I'm, all I'm doing is, um, onboarding people, onboarding people, transferring my knowledge. Like, and I'm doing this every month repetitively. Um, so I looked at the solutions on the market and uh, so a platform where you can just upload videos and make a learning path and now all the stuff that you need to know, uh, we, we videotape, um, the, the leaders are making videos and um, presentations, uh, and we are creating this huge kind of academy approach in our company, um, where everyone obviously can get that kind of knowledge because if it does come to the solar systems, there is a lot of technical knowledge that you can gain.
Speaker 0 00:22:01 Uh, and it's for, it's good for everyone, right? Um, even in my department, um, I'm, I told my recruiter for example, go, you know, have, spend a week in our operations department and get to know what those people are doing and what we are all about and what the technical part is about. So we've got this, uh, so I'm creating this, um, or I'm setting up this platform right now. Um, look at the, correct, the, the, the, the fitting, uh, h r I s I think it's called <laugh>, the correct software that our, our leaders can, um, work with and that they get reminders and you know, that's what I'm saying. Like, um, I can, I can give them the tools to, um, concentrate on their work. I think that's, that's what I'm at least trying to do.
Speaker 2 00:22:48 <laugh>. No, absolutely. And, and, and it's an interesting thing, right? The whole kinda knowledge bank knowledge sharing piece.
Speaker 0 00:22:54 Yes, yes. And the worst that can happen is, you know, one, one, it's in German, it's called, um, it's um, when you transfer, like one person transfer the knowledge to the next one, the next transfers to the next, and you know, stuff is getting lost or it changed. And at, at some point you have weird communication going <laugh> around weird information. Uh, so, uh, that should never happen. And that's why, you know, it wasn't necessary when we were four people. It wasn't necessary when we were 20, but it's definitely necessary now that we're ad
Speaker 2 00:23:31 Yeah, interesting. I think we've, we, we went through a, a kind of similar curve at, at, at seed, you know, everyone pulling their knowledge into a database or, um, we use Notion for that. We just a just a, a pile of stuff into there and you get to a point where you think actually like, we need to organize this, right? <laugh>, otherwise people are just gonna repeat the same thing over and over again or find five different versions of how you do something. And there needs to be some consistency when you get to that kind of critical mass as a business when you are ready to become consolidated and go out with a, with a singular approach, right?
Speaker 0 00:24:06 But, but you also need to make it interesting, right? Because no one's gonna, if you've got this, like the platform is only as good as the people using it. Yeah. So if it's super boring content and you just go through 40 minutes videos, you're gonna get everyone lost. So we are looking into that. And for example, <laugh>, our head of project management came up to me and he was like, I want a test in this, in this, and I want it to be the worst construction site you can ever think of. And people have to be able to decide and it all goes wrong, <laugh>. So that when they started, they, you know, they get a feeling of what can happen on a construction site and are aware <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:24:44 Worst case scenario, no.
Speaker 0 00:24:46 Yes, be prepared.
Speaker 2 00:24:48 <laugh>, I have a, I have a couple of questions to, to close us out today. Thank you so much for sharing that information with us. Couple of questions, cause I know it's quite heavy businessy conversations, so if you could choose three people to have, um, at a dinner party or drinks from the present or from history, who would they be and why?
Speaker 0 00:25:12 Um, I think it would be, uh, I'd go for everyone. I, I, I hear this question sometimes and, uh, everyone is going for a Leonardo DiCaprio, which I think is super funny, but I'd go for Leonardo da Vinci. Um, maybe he would ha because I think he was, um, from, you know, from history, um, heard that with he, he had quite some knowledge and maybe he would know on, he'd have maybe even better solutions on how to get, stop that global warming. I heard that he had a solution on how people can, you know, live underwater, but he never revealed it because he was scared that people are gonna take over the sea. So maybe he, he has some idea on how to stop that global warming more effectively. <laugh>, so he'd be, he'd be the Leonard I would go for. Um, and, um, also thinking of, I, I looked at, you know, other companies and at the culture and people that were, um, awesome at it, I would say <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:26:14 Uh, for example, Tony Shy, the former CEO of Tapo, I saw a documentary on him and I thought it was, I mean, it was amazing on what he did. And then also this guy called Ricardo Similar, um, who took over a company and who already did the stuff that we are talking about today in the 1980s, um, in a family business. And I read about it and I thought it was amazing, and especially in the 1980s, um, to be so innovative and <laugh>, it's sad to say innovative and listen to the people. Um, and he, he created this whole really great culture in Brazil. Um, this company was based and af I think after a few years, um, all students from the top universities wanted to work there and he created this, this yeah. Amazing culture at this company when no one was preaching about it. So I think, uh, it would be great to talk to him. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:27:17 Yeah, that's, that, that's really interesting. I I, I'd probably go for both Leonardo's. No gonna lights, um, <laugh>, but no, no, I think it's really interesting. It's, that shows me quite a lot about actually you as a person in terms of those choices because that's, you know, they're personal interests, but they're also connected to your work, which shows me quite a lot about your, how you feel.
Speaker 0 00:27:40 There's, for me, there is no difference. Like May, yeah, maybe some difference between private life and <laugh> working, but, uh, yeah, I, I love what I'm doing,
Speaker 2 00:27:51 Which is fab, which is an amazing thing to hear. And you know, you spend so much of your life at work, right? Exactly.
Speaker 0 00:27:57 You,
Speaker 2 00:27:58 You have to enjoy the, the work that you do and the people that you are with and the, the business that you're doing that with. And it, it's great to hear kind of how passionate you are about, about driving that forward. Um, and obviously have been over the last kinda four and half years. <laugh> just, just, uh, just to finish off today, is there value or phrase or that you tend to like your, your motto or your, I guess
Speaker 0 00:28:25 I don't think it's a real model, but I usually live by, and this is also what I, what I did when I looked at the people, um, team. Um, it's don't look left and right, but find your own way. Um, for example, I, I really, I, I think I said this earlier on, I hate preset rules, like this is how it's done. And, um, I think you have to find your own way and, um, and every company is different and everything that you're doing is, is, you know, it's different. And for example, I heard that, um, this just, I thought it was a funny example, but, um, I heard that 30% of leads coming in a company of rubbish with without, with us, it really doesn't count. Like I think a hundred percent of them are great because our marketing department is doing a fantastic job. So, you know, how crazy would it be to just rule out 30% of the leads coming in, because that's the rule, <laugh>, and yeah, I, I, I did the same with, uh, the people department. I looked at the company and how it should be done here, uh, on how the company has been set up and not how in theory, in the perfect world how a people department should be, I don't know, managed. So I, I don't like looking left and right. I do try to find my own way every time with everything I do.
Speaker 2 00:29:49 And I, and I think we, that's kind of come across as throughout this whole conversation is your people team is for the people. It's not yeah, for the business, it's for the people to kind of, to bring them forward and from a cultural perspective. And I, and I love that. So, um, that's been really, really interesting and, and really resonated throughout the whole conversation. So thank you for that man. Thank you. It's been really, really interesting having a chat with you and really, um, good to hear what's kind of going on with your business. And you know, the very best of luck with the scale from 80 to 200, cuz that's big <laugh>. Thank you. So
Speaker 0 00:30:23 I'm, but I, we'll handle
Speaker 2 00:30:25 <laugh>. Oh course. Absolutely. I have no, no doubt at all that you'll be absolutely fine. But, um, we'll, we'll be watching from the sidelines and cheering you on and, um, yeah, very best luck and thank you again for today Was lovely.
