Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:01 In order to meet our goals, we need people, right. We need great people and you can't hire expertise in every place. Right? So it's just like I talked about like scaling our insurance operations and we're scaling the way that we are attract, hire, retain our employees. Right. We have to do that. It is mission critical.
Speaker 2 00:00:24 Hello. My name is Luke Eaton and welcome to the seed scaling so far podcast. In this episode, we are going to be having a deep dive into a very interesting explosive set part of the FinTech sector in particular InsureTech. We're going to be talking with a company called Milo, which is a Kansas city. Headquartered InsureTech company is revolutionizing the insurance industry just now for small business owners and for individuals, they were founded in 2015. They were backed by Lockton insurance as well as Guggenheim partners. And they have won a ton of awards on their growth journey, uh, including the FinTech breakthrough award in 2021 and InsureTech. And last year they were near by Forbes as one of America's best startup employers. So we had such a good time chatting about that. Uh, in, uh, our conversation. I had a great conversation with Dave Embry, uh, Milo's CEO on his approach to building that team why he thinks my little stands out as a startup employer of choice and how he is CEO or partners with his wider talent and people team.
Speaker 2 00:01:26 Uh, I realize chat with David. I found it super interesting in particular, his background in traditional insurance, and now how he is, uh, moved into the, sort of the tip of the spear of insure the InsureTech space. I really enjoyed the chat and I hope enjoy too. So, um, David, I'm so happy to have you on the seed scaling so far podcast, um, really, really appreciate your time. I've been really looking forward to this call. Um, I feel I've got about three hours worth of questions for you. So I'm going to have to try and condense it for the sake of your time. Um, I really want to kind of get into your background. Um, definitely want to talk a lot about Milo and then obviously the scaling side of the, uh, of, of your journey though, but also just insure tech in general is such an exciting space. So feel free to cut me off if, uh, if you have to go and, uh, if you have to go and I'm just constantly asking you questions, um, I'm probably just getting a bit too excited. Um, but let, let's start with you yourself, David, um, you know, for our listeners, you know, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, uh, and your career so far?
Speaker 1 00:02:31 Yeah, sure. Great. Thanks. Thanks for having me on today. Look, I appreciate it. Look forward to the conversation. So my name I'm David Embry. I'm the CEO of Milo. I was a founder of what ultimately became Milo and I, prior to that, I was in the FinTech space where I worked for JP Morgan. I built a 401k business, um, ultimately left there when they combined it with a couple other businesses to get scale, uh, really, and, um, did a little stint with a company called select quote, which is another insurance tech, uh, met the folks at locked in and then really pitched the idea that ultimately became Milo. We've been at it for about five or six years and learned a lot, uh, done some really cool things, right? Learn some things, uh, that we done things we wish we would've done better. Uh, but really, uh, you know, we're here surviving, thriving, growing, and glad to be here.
Speaker 2 00:03:24 Fantastic. And it was good to have that support, right. Um, you know, organizations like lots of them are just sold so good for, uh, for support in the early stage businesses at that stage. Um, and in terms of Milo itself. So, uh, a lot of us are Europe based. Uh, so it would be good to get an understanding of what Milo does in the insurance space.
Speaker 1 00:03:44 Yeah, it's really simple, right? We are on InsureTech digital broker, which means that we, um, take clients from, um, ecosystems or other clients that have a need to buy insurance. Right. We collect as little information as we possibly can, right? Because nobody likes to buy insurance and we make a recommendation in terms of what coverage you need, what carrier you should go to. Um, and then advise on additional products, right? Our platform offers access to commercial lines, insurance, personal lines, insurance. Uh, so that would be for commercial lines. Insurance would be not like a bop general liability professional liability for your small business, right? So we focus on small businesses. Um, in addition to commercial lines, uh, property casually, we do small group benefits. So not only do we do, do we ensure your business, we can also provide coverage for benefits for small employers, right on the personal line side, uh, we offer home auto umbrella, boats, cars, et cetera.
Speaker 1 00:04:49 Um, and then we have some additional products, life insurance, um, uh, individual health insurance, uh, Medicare that we have some partners that we fulfill through. And the idea for us, when we go to a partner, a channel partner who has, you know, thousands, tens of thousands, or even millions of clients who potentially need insurance, is that we can be the insurance extension for them. We embed our capabilities in their customer experience. We get information from them, um, in terms of, uh, information about the individual or small business. So we don't have to ask things we should already know, and then we make that recommendation inside their ecosystem. Um, and as their business needs change or as they need additional insurance, right, we can fulfill that on our platform using technology to make it an awesome experience.
Speaker 2 00:05:40 Oh, that's really interesting. What interests me, I've worked in numerous FinTech. So I've currently worked a lot with Kleiner and for me, are we, are we talking about a technology company? Are we talking about a financial services company like that? It seems to me the disruptive piece is that customer centric of make their lives easier. And then, then it's going to be useful for your partners and your channel partners. Right. So how does that, how does that work in my lower you, do you see yourselves out as a tech company or do you see yourselves as a sort of an extension of finance
Speaker 1 00:06:09 Really tech enabled, right. And technology can make life easier, right? It can make, it can allow people to have better recommendations if the last couple of years have proved anything, right? They've proved that if given the choice and it's a good choice, right? People would prefer to interact or buy or will interact or buy online. And when we say digital, we don't mean just completely online. We've got a call center that takes lots of phone calls. But the thing that it does is it makes the experience better for the consumer. As I said before, like nobody likes to buy insurance. It's the worst investment you can ever make. Right? You spend all of this money over time. And the best thing that can happen is you never use the thing you buy. Right? And so when you talk to somebody, whether it's an agent or online, or our agent or a independent agent, and you go to them and they, if anybody asks you, what coverage do you need, right? Your response is
Speaker 2 00:07:07 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:07:07 I don't know. Right. That's why I'm talking to you. Right. So we can make a better recommendation in terms of coverage. And then because of the breadth that we have, um, initially because of the backing from Lockton, whether your access to all of these markets, uh, in different carriers, and we know what their appetite is, we know what appetite we're presenting for the potential insured. And then we make a recommendation in terms of not only here's the coverage you need, but here's the best match from a carrier that has the risk appetite, where you're going to get good value. We will take care of you over time, right? That is what we do. And if we can shorten that transaction from, you know, a two-hour transaction where you have to fill a bunch of information out and back and forth, et cetera, uh, to something that's very simple where we can gather information, make an intelligent recommendation, um, and the consumer can ultimately leave, um, or small business owner can ultimately leave feeling like they got good advice and a good value, right? You solve the problem for the consumer or the small business owner, but you're also selling the, solving the problem for a channel partner who has clients that come to us and, uh, needing insurance. Right. They're getting insurance from somebody.
Speaker 2 00:08:20 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:21 Right. And if that, if our channel partner can provide access to someone like us, right. That's a great thing for them because they're not only, um, solving a problem for their client, they're doing it in their own ecosystem. So they get the credit for bringing our expertise to their clients.
Speaker 2 00:08:42 Yeah. So you can see how this is such a universal consumer experiences. As you say, Northern lakes, the experience I've got insurance in the UK that, so you so quickly in touch with third party solutions, I would love for car insurance. And then within 10 minutes, I've got three separate insurers on the phone to me who I didn't want to speak to in the first place, are they going to keep calling me? Is this, is this going to do every time I need insurance, I could use it's so universal that experience. I can see how, uh, there's such an appetite for Milo.
Speaker 1 00:09:13 And that's a fundamental difference, right? Whenever our clients, our channel partner appliance. So these big companies that have access to, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of, um, of consumers. And if those are some small businesses, when they send it to us, like now ship it to somebody else. They're not getting five phone calls. Like we do that. That's what they're hiring us to do. And so the breadth and depth and expertise that we bring is really part of the differentiation. Um, and we use technology to integrate with our partners, to integrate with the carriers, right. To ask you a questions, to grab information from the public domain so that we can make it a better customer experience.
Speaker 2 00:09:51 Fantastic. And I was just looking at some of the, uh, the background information for Milo there. And I suppose that's part of the reason you won. You've won some awards recently that if we're getting this right, please tell me if we've got this right. There's FinTech breakthrough, a war for 2021 for InsureTech innovation was on while you recently won.
Speaker 1 00:10:10 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. We've done a good job and, you know, we've been very lucky or it should be very proud of our team for being recognized for the thing that we're trying to do. Right. Insurances hundreds of years old. Right. And, um, like the InsureTech boom, right. Really is, um, you know, one of the last things, right. My prior life, I was in the retirement business. So in the U S we call it 401k right. Or defined contribution. Um, and it's that intersection of technology and financial services, right. It was very similar, like what's happening in InsureTech, um, happened. And the retirement business in a 15 years ago, it happened and, or maybe 20 years ago it happened. And, uh, you know, like HR, human resources, technology, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, right. In insurance is just more complex, right. Because you've got more differentiation. Insurance is a lot of things. And especially for small transactions for, um, individuals or small businesses, right. Using technology to make that a better thing is really the reason that we, uh, you know, that we exist. So
Speaker 2 00:11:17 That's really interesting that you say that the complexity, when, when I worked with fintechs, they look at themselves, I think a lot, uh, it's, it's relatively standard that they see themselves as a software organization and the financial services element is a use case or a problem that they're solving with technology. And I think that's why a lot of traditional banks, you know, those are the first layer, one sort of fintechs that your mom's or banks and so on. I think that's why they're just beating the hell out of all of the traditional banks. They just can't think in, in that agile initiative, super fast innovating way. Um, whereas a technology organization that applies itself to finance certainly can. Um, so I'm always stoked to sort of hear from the inside out, you know, what, what that journey is like. Um, I'll probably like circle back to some of that, is that kind of a keen interest about, um, just the, just the scaling side of it? So you mean, you've obviously had a huge amount of success, you know, Cedar in the game of enabling that those hyper growth businesses and we know full well, the growth challenges, the people's challenges. So I'd love to know, you know, what, what did Milo look like from day one? Where are you now? And just, what was that scaling journey like for you?
Speaker 1 00:12:33 I mean, Milo looked like me, right. It was actually called lock marketplace. The day we started and we incubated inside of the business that Lockton had. Um, until we, you know, we had a basic thesis on what we want to do and we learned some stuff and, um, you know, we figured out we needed to have our own technologists in terms of working for us. And we were able to grab a whole team of those people about a year and, um, you know, spun it out of that business, right. Rebranded from Lockton marketplace to Milo, um, owned our own customer experience. Right. And Myla does really two things, one, right. We want to make smart recommendations. Right. We grew out of, uh, an organization, um, called Lockton, right. Which is the world's largest independently held insurance broker, but we couldn't be like within locked in.
Speaker 1 00:13:20 Right. Because they're a big company. Right. So, um, as we spun out, Milo was at its own place. We had our own engineers. Um, we had to attract and retain folks that wanted to work in a high volume, high energy, right. Startup. Right. Which is different than a traditional company. I worked for JP Morgan for a long time. And this was very, very different just in that pace that we move and the things that we were trying to do. Um, and then we went out and got outside investment, uh, from a Guggenheim and a couple of others, um, a number of years ago. Right. So having, um, somebody else that was on our cap table, that brings fresh ideas that has an insurer Sharon's technology background, um, and being from an organization or born out of an organization like Lockton, I really wasn't a huge advantage, right.
Speaker 1 00:14:10 Having the benefit of being a startup and a technology company and having the background and the expertise that we could pull from, and the history of a company like Lockton, if you put those together, we thought it was something that was uniquely special. It wasn't me and a couple other people, um, in a garage trying to figure out insurance, right. We had real folks that came in, but it was important to us or real people that had expertise that, that advised us upfront and on an ongoing basis. But we also had enough separation that we could build and do and compete in a way that a traditional FinTech or insure-tech needs to, uh, you know, truly with the technology first mindset. Right. And the technology first doesn't mean replacing people. It means empowering them, uh, to, um, have a better experience, right. To integrate in ways that work things would traditionally have done, been done on paper. Uh, and I remember when we first started, one of the big things was not like digitizing insurance or our tagline is rationalize revolutionized insurance to protect what matters, right. Is not taking an insurance application and putting it online. Right. It is making that experience better. Right. So that when somebody comes to you, right. You minimize the things that you have to ask you maximize the value that they get out of it now mean if we do that with one.
Speaker 2 00:15:36 Yeah, absolutely. I think it, again, it's, it comes back to that customer century that cost from the customer forward, rather than, as you say, like, let's take something that's traditionally here and make it a bit better. Does it even need to exist at all? Well, let's ask the customer let's, let's enable the technology. Um, it, that, that best of both worlds between Lockton and, uh, uh, spin out, um, you must have had some exceptional market intelligence. So, you know, I think a lot of startups, they have to kind of, it's almost like the blindfold, like shooting a bull bull, looking for a bullseye, you know, when they're developing new features, the only other limited amount of market intelligence, how useful was, is having that level of wisdom, uh, from Lockton in developing those initial, those first few features that were getting you on the map.
Speaker 1 00:16:22 Yeah. And not only that as I, when I pitched this idea to Lockton, right, it was, you've got money, right. You've got relationships, right. With carriers, you've got relationships with distribution, right. You've got history and experience. And all of those things not only helped us launch today. Right. It makes us better. Right. Locked in, did small business in different places across the organization. Right. And we've sort of rolled that into my, so not only are they an owner and not only are they, um, you know, somebody that funded us, they're also a big partner, right. For a future business, we're solving a problem, not just for other clients, but also for Lockton. Um, and they, you know, make us better and smarter. And, and, and, and, you know, I like to call it a little bit of an unfair advantage in terms of, um, the thing that they help us do on a ongoing basis in terms of the experience that we create and the, and the, um, recommendation that we make. Right. So Lockton's a huge component. And I don't think we'd be here today. I know we wouldn't be here today. Right. Without, you know, not only their support, but also their partnership, um, and their expertise.
Speaker 2 00:17:33 Okay. That is really fascinating that that sort of synergy between those two types of organizations,
Speaker 1 00:17:38 I actually call it intrepreneurship versus entrepreneurship. Right. Because, you know, w we have a bunch of entrepreneurs and where you have an entrepreneurial mindset at LA at, but like, we really built the business for the first few years, like inside of locked it and leveraging, uh, what they did. Um, and you know, it's a little bit different cause you have different governance, et cetera. And in some ways it's easier in other ways it's more challenging. Um, but, uh, you know, I think it's a little bit of a spin on entrepreneurship because we, you know, we did it, uh, inside a company. And then when we went out and got outside capital, you know, today we look much more like, uh, uh, you know, traditional, um, you know, FinTech, InsureTech business. Um, but you know, Lockton still is the majority owner and a huge component of what we do
Speaker 2 00:18:25 And what are the challenges to, to scale that is pretty much our, our line of work. And that we'll always want to know what are those challenges? Um, FinTech is highly competitive, any kind of product centric technology is very, very competitive in the skills space. So what were the challenges you faced as a leader of a business going from, you know, though that table smaller, mighty team up to something that was more, um, more traditional as you, as you say, leave the tools as to change the way you communicate change, reporting lines have to change, uh, you know, the, the attrition has different effects at the bit to the penthouse pick the businesses. So could you just walk us through like some of the main challenges and how you overcame those?
Speaker 1 00:19:08 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I could talk for six hours and challenges and then we throw COVID in the middle of it. Right. And send everybody home on March 12th a couple of years ago. Um, and you know, and, and ironically, we had our best sales day ever to that point in time, on the day after March 13th. Um, you know, but when you start, you know, you have an idea, you've got some things you want to try it, you can't build everything. So you've got some partners that you bring in. Uh, and then as, you know, you figure out what works you do more of that. You figure out what does it, you do less of that, right? The big challenge is being able to, you know, when you start it just you or you and a couple of people, um, you know, hiring other people who bring expertise to the table and those people, your needs change over time, right.
Speaker 1 00:19:55 They change from, you know, just scaling or managing to being able to, or I'm sorry, just launching or managing to really scaling. Right. So if the last two plus years, right, we really have been focused on scale and the things that we do and the way that we build stuff and the way that we integrate, uh, capabilities from, um, the, our partners, right. Just ultimately, um, you know, is with the mind to, like, we need to, you know, we grew 160 plus percent, a couple of years ago, a hundred percent of last year. Um, you know, there's, the denominator gets bigger, right? You have to continue to think about how can we grow the top line at an increasing rate, but also, uh, become more effective or efficient from, uh, um, what we're spending for that growth. And not only are we growing the top line at that rate, right.
Speaker 1 00:20:47 We have scaled our business such that, um, you know, we've grown the bottom line at a much, much, much lower percentage because we're more efficient using technology. So then how do you do that? You hire people who have expertise, who can come in and take what you have and build the, continue to build the platform and help you scale. Right. So we had, you know, in the last three years of COO or CTO, um, you know, hiring and the COVID world is very different if you and I would have had this conversation pre COVID, I would have told you, it was very important for everybody to be in the office and have this little, you know, inflection points, et cetera. And everybody's been at home for a couple of years and we experienced tremendous growth. And so the ability to adapt in the way that technology allows you to do that, I think is hugely important.
Speaker 1 00:21:34 And then now as we come back, right, how do we mix those things? Like, how do we get more cohesive? Because we've hired a, you know, set, you know, 50%, 60% of our workforce since COVID started. Right? So some of them haven't actually met each other face to face, like, you know, I'm in the office now. Um, as people start trickling back in for the folks that are in our headquarters, uh, there are a lot of people, I don't know. I have to introduce myself to lots of people because, you know, we've gotten much, much, much bigger. So how do we manage that? How do we bring people back? How do we give them flexibility where it makes sense? Um, and you know, I think we have employees and, you know, 10 or 15 states and overseas, right. And none of that existed right prior to, uh COVID.
Speaker 1 00:22:22 So how do we scale? How do we build a system that can serve those people? Because we believe that's the way the workforce is. And the way it's going to be is what will allow us to continue the, the, not only the growth trajectory we're on, but also building efficiencies, making better recommendations in terms of, uh, you know, care, what care covers you need, what care do you need? What's the next best product? How do we service those on an ongoing basis? Right. All of those things have to be done as our business gets bigger, bigger and bigger.
Speaker 2 00:22:53 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:22:55 I answered your question.
Speaker 2 00:22:56 You certainly did. You certainly did. You brought you every time you answer a question, you, you, you bring up two more of those. I think we could probably make this a six hour podcast. I promise we'll let go after an hour, but promise. Um, you're absolutely right on the COVID piece. It is monumental. It's the first question on all of our customer's lips is how do we, how do we blend what we've learned over this period back at what is the new normal? And I think one of the biggest starkest realizations is that office spaces, um, you know, any kind of tools that people use to, to meet up via online, uh, even just rituals and structures. These are all tools to empower your employees. I think organizations that have recently made massive capital expenditures expenditures on say an office space. Don't, haven't had that mindset shift yet.
Speaker 2 00:23:46 The older employees have hard, which is if don't want to use the office, I'll use the office. And if I don't want to use the office, I will not. And if you don't give me that flexibility, there's another organization that will. So I think understanding that your office is just as much as a tool as your stapler, you know, you can't be told to me, use the stapler on Monday to Wednesday, we don't need to use a stapler. Uh, that will be, that will be mad. So I think it is a monumental shift and that the organizations that understand how to, how to blend those in a, in an empowering way for their, for their employees are the ones that are going to come out ahead. You know, that
Speaker 1 00:24:18 Just like the rest of our business now, you know, if you have too much surety, right, you'll just be proven wrong. Right. So having the ability to have flexibility, um, and being able to iterate, right. And, and make, you know, you have long-term goals, right. You have a long-term vision, right. You have relatively near term plans and then don't be so wedded to those. Right. Because the thing that we've, you know, our first return to office was going to be, I think, in July when Delta happened and then it was going to be in September and, um, a crime happened. Right. And so we have a relatively young workforce, and so they've got kids, et cetera. And with daycare, you've got to let people play in everything. Right. And so then we just said, are we going to push it? And, um, right. So now we're, you know, we're gonna let people start coming back. People have been coming back when they want to, um, and in March and you know, and we've, it's a guideline, right? Not, it's not set in stone, which I think is a little different. And if you would ask me three years ago, I would've told you we would have been out of space and our headquarters. And I don't think we'll ever be right now. And it's not because our, um, the people aren't growing it's because the flexibility and the fungibility of how you work and where you work, um, you know, will change.
Speaker 2 00:25:43 Absolutely. Um, we've spoken about, about the past essentially, what we're we're where are you and where are you now? Um, I suppose you've segues quite nicely into what, what does the future look like? You know, the next 12, 18 months, what does that look like for Milo in terms of features growth, the sort of the, the people related stuff we would discuss it, what does that look like?
Speaker 1 00:26:07 And I mean, it's really are all about scaling, right? It's about how do we do more with what we have, how do we, um, make our employees more effective, make our agents more efficient, allow potential customers, individuals, or small businesses to transact more effectively, like moving from, um, building baseline capabilities to, um, optimizing those and doing a better job at making proactive recommendations. Right? If you look like this, if you have these things, this is the insurance that you need. Right. And taking the data that we have from, um, things that are really, for all intensive purposes, operational, um, or reporting, right in making the data insights, right. And using, you know, AI and machine learning are way overused, but, you know, the words, you know, like algorithms that we have, and for those transactions that are relatively simple, right? Letting a consumer or a small business interact with us, um, in a much more effective way and getting a much more consistent recommendation.
Speaker 1 00:27:12 And for those more complex things, get those people in still provide a great experience, but get them over to subject matter experts more effectively, um, and, and, and more efficiently. Um, and you know, things not only help us scale our business, they make the customer experience a better customer experience. And the overlap of those two concentric circles, I think, is where we really want to focus. Right? Because, um, like growth, regress sake is not, um, ultimately winning, right, providing a better experience, um, as you become more efficient. Right. And the cool thing is the technology that we use, the integrations that we do from our partners and capabilities that we integrate from our partners and deliver to our clients, um, right. It not only makes it a better experience if you go online or you're on your phone, but that same platform is what we use for our agents.
Speaker 1 00:28:07 And so those same capabilities make it, um, not only more efficient, but also a better experience. However, our customers choose interact with us. And that's really where we're focused. And at bred, before this, we had our leadership team call and that's the cool thing is that's this stuff's coming to life. Like, you know, you're like buying online, right. For a long time, people would say buying online, you can't really, and that's sort of still true, but it's moving that way. Right. And I feel like we serve the wa it's like surfing a wave, right. You can't catch the break if you're not on the wave, but we're surfing the wave right now. And others are too, uh, because the future will continue to unfold, right. It will unleash a better experiences and better efficiency for companies like us, which lead to better scale.
Speaker 2 00:28:57 It's really interesting. It, it's really exciting to think extrapolating like, whoa, what are you going to be in 18 months with that, with that mindset. And I'm certainly, um, I'm certainly interested to see, um, you mentioned sort of the people, the leaderships are Coles. I'm interested to know how you on leadership within my law partners with the talent function within your business. Like, what do you think makes a good rituals and ceremonies between you, the demand owners, the people with the need and the talent, um, function who deliver that goal for you?
Speaker 1 00:29:32 Yes. I mean, it's a, that's the lifeblood, right. Hiring people. And, you know, you asked me before sort of one of the things, what have you learned from when you started to where you now and when we started, like we had enough, um, need, and there was enough supply of people with certain subject matter expertise, right. That we could bring them in and help our business grow. Right. The biggest thing that's changed is like, for us to grow, we have to build and continue to build and recruit people who didn't come from an insurance background. Right. Or don't have insurance training, but bring skillsets whether those are, you know, engineers, fingers on keys, uh, marketing folks, um, sales agents, et cetera. And so how do we do that? And when you bring them in, right, how do you do that? So what we've done is we've, we've partnered with some universities, right.
Speaker 1 00:30:28 To bring people in, do internships, get to know them. They get to know us. We build our own pipeline of people, right. Um, over time. And I, and then like upgrading and really facilitating training and training is not just like, uh, insurance training, but it's who we are. Where do we want to be? How do we grow? Um, and then ultimately this hasn't happened yet, but it will, right. As our business starts to scale those entry-level positions into the organization, start filling in other places because they know who you are and what you do. Um, and you know, we'll at least grow by 50% in terms of number of people over the next 12 months. Right. So how do you do that? How do you find them? How do you bring them in, how do you train them up, right. How do you keep them here and keep them engaged? Um, and I'd like to think too, like the way that we think about what we want to be and where we want to go intrigues people and makes this a unique place, um, you know, to come work for, cause, you know, I will raise my hand. Right. I never thought I'd work in insurance. Right. And, uh, and it's been really cool. This is a really fun place to Dover building really cool things and changing and making better experiences, uh, for ultimately consumers. And, um, I
Speaker 2 00:31:49 Think that's
Speaker 1 00:31:51 A good proposition for potential employees.
Speaker 2 00:31:54 I, I couldn't agree more particularly on, um, the, the more holistic nature of, of the, of the girls' side of things. You know, it's easy to sort of look at your needs and say, right, I need this many senior engineers with this amount of experience and this many security engineers and this many AI people, and then go right, go out to market, go externally and find them all book you're absolutely right. Growing your own. And seeing, seeing talent as a holistic piece of your business, you know, early careers means that you got to focus more on learning and development, which is good for your employer brand. Um, and as you say, when there's attrition, you can always backfill people with the more junior roles which reduces attrition because people don't leave when they just got promoted and a pay rise that they're really happy. Right. Um, and all that, that's how you fill those needs roles. And you're always feeding the plant, you know, with the roots. Um, I could talk for hours about that, but I absolutely say it's refreshing to not have to, um, uh, not have to drive that narrative to leadership ourselves, but sub-tab, leadership's data was, this is how we already do it.
Speaker 1 00:32:59 There's no, I mean, you know, it's not like we're rocket sciences, right. And there's no choice, right. You, you, you know, in order to meet our goals, we need people. Right. We need great people and you can't hire, um, you know, expertise in every place. Right. So it's just, like I talked about like scaling our insurance operations, you know, we're scaling the way that we hire, um, attract or attract, hire, retain our employees. Right. And we have to, we have to do that. It is mission critical.
Speaker 2 00:33:31 No, there was, there was another award that you want. I wanted to make sure I mentioned that as well. And I think it brings up an interesting question, which was the, was it the Forbes, um, best startup? Uh, well please let me know if I'm, if I'm getting yeah.
Speaker 1 00:33:45 I think that's right. It's a, yeah, it was Forbes.
Speaker 2 00:33:51 Is it the best out of Kansas city?
Speaker 1 00:33:54 Well, we won, we won one of the top startups in Kansas city and the Midwest Forbes was a InsureTech startup and award. And the cool thing about all of these are, you know, um, like we don't put our name out there. Right. So for, for instance, um, you know, they had like 10,000 eligible employers is based on reputation. They use social media employee, um, feed bet reviews, average length of employment, growth in head count, website, traffic, et cetera. And so it's really organic and, you know, forums obviously is a big name. Um, and we were very proud. We were proud to like get recognized for all the work that we're doing, but we're very proud, um, from that perspective as well. And like, you know, being a top InsureTech in Kansas city is important if you're hiring people in Kansas city, but as we go more national, um, you know, having Forbes recognize what our employees say about us and what they S what our clients say about us, um, is, is really cool too. And I think it bodes well and helps us from a recruiting standpoint.
Speaker 2 00:35:03 Yeah. I mean, I was you, I kind of already answered some other questions around the metrics that was being used to decide that. And I think if I didn't ask you, you know, what were the unique selling points? What do you think, uh, you know, set your business apart from all of the others to win that award, I'd be, I'll be doing our listeners a disservice, but you know, what, what do you feel was the overall, what, what was the winner? You know, obviously there was some metrics around employee feedback and so on, but what do you felt, what do you feel drives that positive feedback that allow you to will, will not walk?
Speaker 1 00:35:39 Um, if foreign specifically know, I don't know what their algorithm is. Right. I was just, I, I do know that, um, you know, they look at social media interactions, not only for us, for what we put out there before other people say about us, our employees engage, um, employee satisfaction, which you can find a glass door or other places, um, uh, you know, on selling your place, talking about what it's like to work here. Right. And you can't be perfect. Nobody, you know, not everybody loves every place, but like, I think the overwhelming things that are out there and the fact that it was digital in nature, which dovetails very nicely with our business. Um, I think where the things that they looked at and, you know, if I'm hopeful, we can continue to be on that list. We're very, as I said, proud to, you know, do that, and it's not like, like we're out there trying to do that. Right. This was recognition that came to us because of the way that we operate. Um, and I think that is, uh, a really, really positive feedback for our team challenges. As you get bigger, it gets harder. Right. So how do we continue to, uh, you know, do those things that add value and, and quit doing those things, or do fewer of the things that, uh, that take away, that's the challenge.
Speaker 2 00:36:57 Yeah. How do you stay true to the value and brands when the tools, or to change the structure of your organization has to change as you grow? And, um, that, that, you're absolutely right. That certainly is the top line challenge, isn't it? Um, uh, we're getting kind of close to the end of our time, but those are a couple of other bits I was keen to ask you. Um, first of all, the, yeah, I think you're an interesting individual in this space where you, uh, you feel, I feel your career is like a bookend of, you know, you would know the traditional sort of insurance space inside and out from your time at JP Morgan. And obviously, you know, you're at the forefront of the InsureTech piece now. Um, we spoke a lot about Milo and, uh, and whatnot, but, um, I'm keen to know from your point of view, you know, what, what have you, what did you learn? Is there anything from the JP Morgan, from the traditional institutions that you've learned that has enabled you to be a success in, in a newer, more disruptive business?
Speaker 1 00:37:51 Oh yeah. I mean, JP Morgan was a phenomenal place. I started, uh, I was on a team of people. Um, I didn't really start it. I was young person, right. That started a retirement business that, you know, we got our first client. I was on one of the first seven employees. And I talked about entrepreneurship that happened inside, um, another mutual fund company in Kansas city. And there was a mentor, a guy I worked for, um, named Tom Komack, who was the visionary behind, behind that it was entrepreneurially grown. And then JP Morgan came in, we operate as a joint venture. JP Morgan bought the rest of the business. And so I went from doing little deal and went from answering the phones to carrying the sales guys back to doing a bunch of small deals, to doing billion dollar deals with JP Morgan. And, um, they have billion dollar retirement plans and it was really like, great.
Speaker 1 00:38:41 It was awesome. Right. It was, I wish I could say I had a grand plan and, you know, went out and found it, but having the opportunity to meet and work in that business and inside of JP Morgan as it scaled itself. Right. And seeing the evolution of that business, um, and you know, the challenges of what you build or don't build, or, you know, doing presentations in boardrooms of fortune 100 companies. Right. All of those things are great. Right. But it also like having been a part of that intrepreneurial experience growing that retirement business, uh, like laid the groundwork for, you know, maybe being able to do this right. And it gave me the, uh, you know, belief when that happened, that you know, that I could build something, there was an opportunity here. Um, and you know, and then, you know, you take what, you know, and you learn more, right.
Speaker 1 00:39:35 And you have a thesis and you start marching down a path and you have to be smart enough to go. That's working. That's not, I'm going to do more of that. I'm going to quit doing that. And you have to be, um, lucky enough or good enough to write, to attract great people that are awesome at things that you're not. And then you have to be intelligent enough to get out of their way. Right. Which sometimes is the hardest thing. And I'm saying if on our journey, right. I would say if it's a a hundred yard field, we're on our own in a 30 yard line, right. Where, you know, w we have so much more we can do. And the good news is like, things are turning in the right direction. We've got strong ownership. Uh, I've got a great leadership team. I've been lucky enough to be able to hire people who are really, really talented. Um, and, um, you know, and I, I really think that, you know, our ability to scale what we're doing and how we're doing it, et cetera. Um, as you know, we're in a good place,
Speaker 2 00:40:34 But it's, it's really exciting to, to sort of see the, to hear about that journey. And I'm excited to think about where you guys are going to be in 12, 18 months. It actually segues perfectly to my last question, which is a lot of our listeners are actually people in a similar space to yourself, maybe in the, kind of the early stages of a scale of journey and to seals and so on. And I always try to ask if there's a single piece of advice you could give to that group of people, maybe your younger self, or a little bit of Twitter. And I have a question, but it certainly, you know, for, for, uh, founders leaders who are at the beginning of that journey, is there a single piece of advice you would give to that layer of,
Speaker 1 00:41:17 Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure it's a single piece of advice. I think a, you know, anything life has taught me it's patience, way more than I ever thought I would. Uh, because you know, everybody or everything takes longer and tends to cost more than you ever think it will. Right. And so, you know, having good backers is hugely important. Um, and you know, being able to, you know, understand that being resilient as probably, you know, the hardest part, certainly the last four or five years of, of what we've done here.
Speaker 2 00:41:50 Fantastic. Excellent piece of advice, patience and resilience. What do you need? Um, well, David, thank you so much for your time. Um, I really enjoyed that, uh, that this hour, and again, I think I've got about two hours more questions. So next time you're in Scotland, uh, hit me up and I'll, I'll ask you a few more questions if that's okay.
Speaker 1 00:42:12 I'll do it
Speaker 2 00:42:14 On David.
Speaker 1 00:42:16 Bye-bye
Speaker 3 00:42:17 Amazing in exchange for some good Satish bear and food. I hope like
Speaker 1 00:42:24 That's right. Yeah. This gas guy that,
Speaker 2 00:42:28 Um, I'm part of the Scott show, the malt whiskey society in Edinburgh. So I'll take to Amanda's room, all casks and,
Speaker 1 00:42:36 Well, I'm not coming this summer because my son is graduating. My youngest son is graduating from high school and going to college in August, but I will be there next year. So I will definitely look you up. We went to tattoo a couple of years ago now I'm at five or six years ago and I know it's super cool. So
Speaker 2 00:42:54 Yeah, it's impressive. Isn't it? Um, you wonder what we're spending so much money on the military fall. You think the guys just get some guns and, you know, protect, like I know at least it was great, but yeah, I found it. It's absolutely fantastic. Uh, some of the stuff that I saw, the tattoo, I always have a family friends who want come to stay with me and all the guests, funnily enough. Um, and so I get to see the tattoo quite often because I'm almost, you know, ferrying people around the site and it never ceases to amaze me, you know,
Speaker 1 00:43:23 And then burrow castle. And, you know, there's so much history, you know, sort of in and around there. And we've been on the, you know, the other side or it's, uh, you know, St Andrew's and Carnoustie and, you know, and barn and all of that. Obviously I play golf and that's why we go over there, but it's, uh, it's just a wonderful, wonderful country. And, uh, it's beautiful. I mean, I always think for whatever reason, like the, the greens and the Browns and, you know, all of that patchwork sort of looking out offset by the fifth, the first is just unbelievable. It's just the most beautiful looking place I've ever been. So
Speaker 2 00:44:02 Yeah. Yeah. Find herself a Scottish last and then stayed here. I'm I'm from the north of England originally. and thought, yeah, this is better than the little coal mining town that I grew up in a little industrial town. I think they'll stick around.
Speaker 3 00:44:18 Amazing. Thank you so much, David. Again, it was, um, it was a real pleasure to listen. Yeah. And
Speaker 1 00:44:25 Any questions, let me know. Otherwise you can just work with Monica, look at stuff.
Speaker 3 00:44:31 No, it was fantastic. What I'll do is I'll edit it. Um, I'll send it over to Monica just in case you need to give it the green light, um, before we push it live. But yeah, it was, it was a brilliant episode, um, and really, really appreciate your time and for sharing so much about your, your journey and Milo's journey as well. So thank you. Bye-bye.
