Speaker 0 00:00:01 I think the other thing that we're, we're thinking through, um, besides even thinking about kind of building community is, um, the different ways that we can continue to support the team. So, uh, one thing that, uh, is actually currently going on is manager training, just taking a proactive approach to building that psychological, like psychologically safe space for, for teams. Um, because as we do continue to grow into different countries, um, different communication styles, different ways of giving, receiving feedback, it's gonna be so key to, to kind of helping, um, that foundational culture that we've we've built belt.
Speaker 1 00:00:39 Hello. My name is Luke Eaton and welcome to seed scaling so far podcast. In this episode, we're gonna be talking to Jen Paxton. She's the VP of
[email protected]. Smile IO were founded in 2012. Uh, they had a major rebounded 2017 and now they are the worlds largest reward program provider. We talk about everything from acquisitions, comms, uh, hyperscale growth, and, uh, what it's like to set up a fully remote first business. So if that's something that you are doing currently at work, uh, then definitely give this one a listen. I hope you enjoy the show. Okay. So, uh, Jen, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today on the scaling top, our podcast. I really appreciate it. Uh, and, and thanks for spending the time with us.
Speaker 0 00:01:26 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Luke. I'm excited to chat
Speaker 1 00:01:29 Super well. I've got, I've got so many questions. I think I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna get slapped on the rest of it more than an hour. So I'm gonna try and be a little bit more toast than I usually am. Um, but for the sake of our listeners, uh, so, uh, VP of people that smile, but before we get into the company, how about you tell us a little bit, bit about yourself.
Speaker 0 00:01:48 Yeah. So, um, have been in the startup space for a little over 10 years or actually even more than, yeah, I guess way more than 10 years at this point. Um, and so I've seen, um, you know, really tiny startups, um, to start to scale and then bigger, more established ones and helped them to scale. Um, I, at least two of the startups I've come into, I've doubled the team in size that first year, which is always, uh, an exciting, um, adventure to be on, uh, from a recruiting standpoint, but also from a, a people standpoint. Uh, and then I've actually been a part of three successful, uh, acquisitions as well throughout my entire tenure. So it's been a wild ride so far, lots of learnings, lots of, um, Hey, I'll do it differently next time kind of thing. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:02:35 Fantastic. Well, it sounds like you've touched on quite every gamut of that, that journey, right from that, that early stage, right. The way through the acquisition. And I've been through some similar stuff myself, and this is why I'm probably gonna end up going over. If I don't, if I don't sort of put my questions down a little bit, I've got so much to ask. Um, cool. OK. And, uh, so you're currently at, uh, smiles. So, um, as I remember, as I, as I've been told, um, founded in 2020, uh, 2012, but there was a major rebound in 2017. Um, and now it's one of the biggest sort of reward programs in, in the eCommerce space. Massive space that, so can you tell us a little bit more about smile, what you guys do, how you do it and what your mission statement is?
Speaker 0 00:03:18 Yeah. So smile helps small and mid-size e-commerce companies to drive, repeat sales through our loyalty program. So think about this, like we're the Starbucks VIP, but for e-commerce. So most of our customers, um, we actually call them merchants, um, are wearing so many different hats. So what we're trying to do, kinda our value prop to them is to make the product as easy to use, but also is going to scale as they scale and, and as they grow.
Speaker 1 00:03:46 Okay. Fantastic. And I know that's a big, uh, that's a, a very big space, right? E-commerce like, so is that a global kind of footprint or is it certain locations that you focus on?
Speaker 0 00:03:56 Yeah, we actually support merchants all over the world. Um, which is actually why I'm so excited about kinda our staff being located, um, all over the world as well. So we, yeah, we have, you know, small merchants that are just starting out, you know, their, their very first business. Um, and they might be in, um, you know, in India and Europe in, you know, south America, north America. Um, a good cohort of course, is in, in Canada as well. You know, Shopify being one of the biggest, you know, players, uh, in the e-commerce space is very, you know, is very big in Canada as well as in the us too.
Speaker 1 00:04:29 Okay. Fantastic. And so you've recently joined C um, joined smile within, within the past year. Right. So what, what is that, what drew you to, to smile in the first place?
Speaker 0 00:04:42 Yeah, so, um, I was coming off, um, a previous e-commerce company that had just been acquired. So I kinda understood the growth that was possible in this space. And, and so kind of smiles, um, you know, growth kind of trajectory and kind of what, um, the potential I saw that the company had to really become, um, even more successful in the, the loyalty space, uh, was enticing to me. And then the other part I would say is, um, smiles just global, you know, global footprint, global presence. So when, um, I was interviewing with them, they were in 15 countries and now we're in 19 countries. So we are kind of the embodiment of distributed. Uh, I had never worked for a company that, uh, supported that many countries. So I was like, Hmm, this is a new challenge. Like, I, I could do that. You know, like the, the biggest, I think I had supported previous was five countries. So, um, I thought it would be a, a new, um, kinda brain puzzle to, to solve actually.
Speaker 1 00:05:39 So, um, so you've been with smile for, uh, coming up to what, nine months now. So I'm assuming you have a, kind of a short term plan as well as medium long term plan. So what's the, what's the first thing on the menu for you? You know, what, what, what's your plans on the people side for, for the next stage of,
Speaker 0 00:05:54 Yeah, so I think the first, I mean, honestly first and foremost is how do we continue to build community? You know, being remote. It's very easy to get heads down. Your work can be very siloed and you can start to become really absent from the culture or even, you know, a new hire coming in. You just don't know how to even like get into it and start to participate as much. So I'm trying to find specific ways to connect folks together, um, and, and start to build that community up. Um, it could be, you know, it could be very hobby driven. We have of course, virtual events as well, but just really trying to think of different ways for, for that community to keep going and, and building. And then, you know, along with that, you know, the company is moving into, you know, a bigger size.
Speaker 0 00:06:38 So, um, it's, it's going from kind of this scrappy startup to this. I mean, this scaling startup that needs additional processes and policies, um, you know, a lot of folks were not distributed beforehand. Now we are. And, uh, a good example of this is people were told just to kind of use their best judgment, uh, when buying a new tool or, or kind of, um, you know, really purchasing anything. And so now I'm kind of putting, um, just more guidance and documentation around, uh, budgeting and just around just general processes as well. Um, so that we can all, you know, live our human value, um, that we have over here at smile.
Speaker 1 00:07:15 OK. Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's quite common occurrences. An organization gets to a certain size. It's more the, the, the method of communications, the, the tools and, uh, sort of the way you organize, it's more of a blocker to the culture than actual thinking about the culture, good or bad. Um, we had the same issue with, uh, in a company that we used to work with with the ecosystem, had about three 50 tools, you know, because everyone used their best judgment and had this discretionary. And that makes sense when you bootstrapping, right. But when you are kind sort of into when you're in that scaling mode, um, it's a ven diagram with the 300 ICEP is probably not a very good way, way forward. OK. That sounds really interesting. And obviously there's such an overlap, not just with our customers, but with seed ourselves, we we're fully remote also, and we have the same issues, you know, and the, what rituals and ceremonies can we, uh, engage in all over the world that makes us feel like we're right on the other side of the desk, you know, so just, I don't have any solutions.
Speaker 1 00:08:13 <laugh> just just problems, but, uh, it is, it's an ongoing, uh, I think, um, issue from a lot of companies just now. And, um, and what's after that then. So let's say, you know, you, you, you kind of gear up for that scale mode. You you've got processes in place, you know, what, what's the ideal long term plan for, for smile for your people strategy?
Speaker 0 00:08:34 Yeah, I think the other thing that we're, we're thinking through, um, besides even thinking about kind of building community is, um, the different ways that we can continue to support the team. So, uh, one thing that, uh, is actually currently going on is manager training. Um, so this is one that, um, at a company of smile sites, so we're about 50, um, 55 employees now. Um, I hadn't brought in, um, a lot of dedicated, uh, like a third party dedicated manager training in previous companies. Um, and I was really excited that we could start investing more in managers this early on. Uh, and so I think that we'll do more of that, uh, but also, you know, leveraging, um, you know, unconscious bias training or microaggression training would be really great as well. Um, just taking a proactive approach to kinda building that psychological, like psychologically safe space for, for teams, um, because as we do continue to grow into different countries, um, different communication styles, different ways of giving, receiving feedback, it's gonna be so key to, to kind of helping, um, that foundational culture that we've we've built.
Speaker 0 00:09:42 Um, and then the last part is, you know, we are, we are gonna be recruiting a good bit again, too. So we're, we, um, you know, doubled the team in size last year and we've now, um, you know, we're kind of in the, Hey, let's see kinda now that all of the team is ramped up, you know, how can we, how can we run from here? And then when do we need to start hiring, um, on the, on the team again? Uh, so we're, we're working on that. Uh, and then the last part that I'm excited about, but also, um, I'm gonna have to like adjust it a little bit, uh, is a communication workshop in, in general, again, um, you know, there's, there's definitely many different communication workshops out there, but when you think about it from a global and, and distributed SL, um, it's, it's really interesting to see, like, is this an asynchronous communication? Is this a synchronous one? Like, does this require a loom video? Does this require maybe like a VO back and forth? Like what, what, what do you need to, to do to communicate it? So there's, there's a decision tree in our notion page right now on it, but I like to expand upon that too.
Speaker 1 00:10:41 That's really interesting as well as, um, I always find that, um, people find that communication is entirely natural. You know, you have your way of communicating. I think as people mature as individuals and certainly moving to management to realize that there's different tools in the toolbox, depending on the situation. I think one of the key parts of management training from, from our side is getting our individual contributors moving up into that role to understand that there's not just how you've learned to communicate very well, but in this way, but there's also this way and this way and this way. So that sounds really interesting. And how are you gonna implement that if you don't mind even getting too much into the weeds, please just say, Luke, you getting too much into the weeds, but how are you gonna implement something like that on a global scale? So how do you know, what is the smile standard of communication that works across all of these 19 countries? And how do you know what is more, you know, unique to certain locations?
Speaker 0 00:11:34 Yeah, well, I actually, uh, when I first started at smile, I did, um, this listening tour where I met one on one, um, with every single employee and we have some employees that are, um, you know, all the way across the world. So we, we don't overlap from a time zone. So we did, um, you know, we did asynchronous chats back and forth, uh, but via, via video with a tool. And I honestly want to, um, to do it again, like, I, I really think you should do it like every six months, if, if you can get away with it, um, or at least some small segment of, of a listening tour. Um, but I really wanna do that first and just understand the different cultures that maybe I'm not as, as aware of, or are not as highlighted, um, right now and see, you know, are we, are we missing anything within our communication that we should really think through and, and, and do.
Speaker 0 00:12:25 Um, so I wanna kind of get in that gathering feedback stage first before I, you know, just, you know, put out a, <laugh> put out a thing for the team. Um, so one of the BLS that I've had at a previous company where I thought, you know, a playbook that I had at a previous company was gonna work so well at this company. And it didn't work as well as, as expected. And I was like, huh, I was very surprised by that. So, um, I've tried to, in this role at smile, I've tried to take kind of a step back and, um, and really just come at it from a listening perspective before I get into like, solutionizing everything
Speaker 1 00:13:01 Yeah. That, that whole 30 Michael sort of net value thing that, uh, is really, really helpful in that situation. That makes a lot of sense. And you, you touched on the kinda the other organizations, and that was something that I was keen to talk about because you have that, what, what I found really interesting about your career as well as, as well as smile is that you've been from those 20 to 50 person organizations, but right. The way through to that those acquisition events and all of the due diligence that goes into that and the restructuring and whatnot. Um, could you tell us a little bit about some of the organizations you've worked with and what your experience has been like of taking that scaling organization, working with those VC via, uh, a private acquisition and, and, and helping them through that journey?
Speaker 0 00:13:50 Yeah, and I, I will say I have never directly worked with the VCs at this point. Like, that's the one, one thing that I would like to get more exposure to. It's more on, um, the, the founder and the CEO side where I'm, I'm a secondary sounding board of, oh, why would you wanna choose this, this offer over the other? And then also helping with all of the, um, internal communications that go out around, Hey, we are going to be acquired. This is what is going to happen. And thinking through all of the edge cases for that, and then also working on, you know, all of the, all of the diligence side of it as well. Um, I think every single one, well, every single one that I've been through has been extremely different. Um, you know, especially from like a, a process standpoint. Uh, but also, um, there are many different ways companies can be acquired.
Speaker 0 00:14:40 Some are just completely, you know, sucked into the next company, others, um, you're left is your own kinda entity to do your own thing. Uh, but then slowly over time you get kinda acclimated into the other company. And, um, it's, it's almost like it just kind of creeps in and then other times, yeah, they just kind of, um, they, they just kind of leave you to do your own thing too. So it's been, it's been interesting to kind of see how each of those acquisitions have, have evolved, but also I think the, the biggest learnings for me is the, the communication piece of how, how it gets communicated when it gets communicated. And then, um, almost like the checklist of steps that should be, should be communicated to employees that if they don't get communicated to employees or just even, um, even more of a disaster and, and you don't look as organized and you create extra work for yourself in the end, too.
Speaker 1 00:15:36 So seem to always come back to good mature coms, doesn't it. Um, at the end, I always say that, you know, unanswered question is always negative in someone's mind, if your, if your boss messages you on a Friday to say, can I speak to you Monday morning? You don't spend the weekend saying, oh, maybe I'm getting a pay rise. Maybe I'm getting a promotion. You, you know, you sit there going, oh God, something terrible's gonna happen and we can't help it. It's just the way humans work. So absolutely just at the right message in the right way, the right time. And have there been any challenges around that? I mean, there any individual challenges around that you see, uh, that a lot of our listeners could be founders for organizations maybe a little bit, uh, before kind of that, that where they currently are, but certainly there's a lot of, uh, insight that they can get from this type of experience. You know, what would you say are the key challenges around the comms when it comes to these acquisition events?
Speaker 0 00:16:33 I, I actually find it really fascinating cuz there's a like to communicate or not to communicate, um, aspect of it. So, um, at, at privy in particular, you know, we, um, we weren't sure about an acquisition for a while or we were thinking about it, but then also it was like, well, we could, you know, go do this. We could go do that. And then, um, once kind of we were, um, thinking, yes, yeah, we wanna go do the acquisition, um, you know, communicating it early. Um, it could have backfired horribly, um, as well on, on us. And I mean, it could have, cause what happens, you know, deals, deals don't always go through, right? Um, things, things fall short. Uh, and so, uh, that can be really challenging to communicate it too early to members of the team. On the flip side of that, I will say that employees are super smart.
Speaker 0 00:17:22 And so if you are behaving differently as a leadership team, or if you're putting out, you know, goals, um, that are maybe misaligned with what you had previously or, or just very different than what you've had previously, you're gonna have employees that are starting to ask questions and if you're evasive or if you, um, if, if you're not as truthful, um, they're, I mean, you start eroding trust. First of all, which is, is never a good, never a good sign, but, um, but there is, it, it is kind of a delicate balance of when you wanna go ahead and tell employees like, Hey, we are, you know, we're on a path acquisition and this is, and this is why we wanna do this. These are the steps we feel like we need to do to get us into a, a good place for acquisition. Um, but yeah, like you, you definitely run the risk of the deal following through, and then your employees potentially being deflated as well. So, um, I think that that's the, the toughest thing. Um, you know, some, sometimes it's good to wait until, you know, you have at least the initial kind of paperwork signed before you let the employees know, but sometimes by then even more, more senior employees that maybe have even been through some acquisition before might already kind of see that it's it's coming as well.
Speaker 1 00:18:36 OK. That, that makes a lot of sense. And, um, in terms of, I, we touched a little bit on the, the fully remote piece, or should I say that everything we've discussed is kind of contacted or touched that, that fully remote piece? Um, it's the, probably the hot topic, obviously over the past two years, how do, how do companies reorganize in the modern world? And one of the, one of the things that alarms me about these conversations is that employees still think it's their choice, whether they go hybrid or whether they, you know, make a capital expenditure or an office. And maybe it's a little bit more the employer's choice, cause they've built habits around the workplace that they don't wanna let go of. And they'd rather leave the company than leave that habit. Right. Especially if you have kids or whatever it's. So I, could you tell us a little bit more about your decision to go fully remote? What were the pros and the cons internally, you know, who, not who in particular, but you know, who in, within the organization were maybe detractors who were, you know, promoters, could you just tell us a bit about that decision making process?
Speaker 0 00:19:41 Yeah. And I think this one, this one was a, I mean, it, it is a challenge, no matter what kinda deciding if you're going to go, you know, fully remote or even even go hybrid. Um, you know, because you're going to have some of, um, just the old, old guard. So people that have been at the company for years who are used to an in-office culture and they're either gonna make the transition with you and it's gonna go well, or they're gonna make the transition and maybe it doesn't, maybe it's not what they wanna do. And, and they're going to, um, to, to leave. Uh, I actually I'll give an example here where, you know, we've, you know, we've hired a ton of a ton of people this last year. And some folks had, um, been at a remote company before, and then also some had never been at a remote company before and were like, I'm just gonna try this out and see if I like it.
Speaker 0 00:20:32 And very early on, like within the first three months, one, one of, one of them actually came to me and was like, I just don't really wanna be in a remote company. Like I, I find it really challenging to do my job this way. And like we, of course are not changing our, our direction. Like we are fully remote. Um, one of the things we're trying to do with kinda this distributed team is hire the best talent, no matter where they're located. Um, which, which, I mean kind of puts us at it, um, at remote, by, you know, remote by default at that point. Um, but I definitely think there is, um, like people just kind of like testing out the waters right now to see if they wanna do remote. And, um, I mean, I know I was in that boat, you know, I, I, uh, I always had kind of that safety net of having an office I could go to, and now I have, I don't have that safety net as well of like, oh, I like don't have an office where I could be like, Hey, can we just meet for a minute?
Speaker 0 00:21:27 Like I have to, um, you know, schedule a zoom or do a quick, you know, do a quick slack cut as well. So, um, I personally really enjoy it. I like the flexibility of, uh, being completely remote, but also it's not gonna be for everybody. And that, that has to be okay as well.
Speaker 1 00:21:41 Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's a, it's, it's very empowering when it's done. Right. I think it's that level of trust that each employee gets yeah. To squish work into the rest of their lives. It can be very empowering to the right people. Um, uh, you you've revamped your EDP at the same time as you've, uh, rebranded and, and, and worked on these, uh, this remote piece. There's a lot of change. How has the remote piece fit into the overall EVP and what's the strategy there overall?
Speaker 0 00:22:13 Yeah, I mean, I think it's been, um, it it's been good and I think it actually really enriches our, our EVP because we have people that, um, are, I will say kinda digital nomads. So we have at least a few at, at smile that, um, really love to travel and have that flexibility where they can be in a few different locations can have their central location, but are able to, you know, be in, you know, different areas. And that is totally fine. Like, we're, we're more about kinda the output of work than the hours you work. Uh, and so that has been really great for employees for that flexibility. Um, the learning though on that end as well, and this is something that we're still, we're still polishing off and I think this is a constant thing for us, but cause we do, um, have kind of that level of flexibility.
Speaker 0 00:23:05 Um, you know, it can like the work, the work in, uh, and the life side of it is just completely blended, which again, like I think is really fun and I, I really enjoy it personally. Um, but I also think that some people coming from even more like traditional corporate companies, um, it's an adjustment period for them as well, you know, like, so somebody will see, you know, Hey, I'm exercising from, you know, one to one to two or like one to 1 45 or something like that. And, um, and that can be jarring for some people, uh, being like, oh, like you're doing that during the middle of the day. Like, uh, but it makes, it makes sense for me. And now I have that flexibility to do that. I'm still getting all of my work done. Uh, and so we wanna make sure that employees, um, communicate kind of what, you know, what they're doing and making sure like the output is still there, but also, um, they're not kind of going on the other side of the spectrum, which is, you know, working, you know, enormously long hours because they don't have a physical place to like shut down and then, you know, go and do something else.
Speaker 0 00:24:10 Cause burnout is real. We just went through a mental resilience, uh, workshop and, um, it was a questionnaire on it kind of to gauge your level of burnout. And it's funny cuz I have the rest of the week off this week. Um, but I was thinking about, okay, like what am I doing to kinda combat that burnout right now? And then what am I experiencing? So if I'm experienced it, I know other people are probably experiencing as well.
Speaker 1 00:24:34 I, I hear you. And I, I always like to be as transparent as possible by I've I've thought burnout. And it is a, it's not just a psychological thing, it's a physical thing. Right. And I, I find like the Newport books, you know, deep work and, and putting a, kinda a shutdown ritual in my, at the end of my day, gave me the emotional permission to switch off and then switch my brain into all the gears. And that's been one of the biggest sort of value bits of value I've ever put into my, into my, my daily working life though. That makes a lot of sense. And um, so you, you, you were talking about mental resilience and uh, sort of the EVP though. Um, the remote piece, I, I find it, it kind of, it biases for efficiencies because if, if you're looking at value first, yes, they can get better at their job and then add more value for the same level of effort.
Speaker 1 00:25:23 Or, and this is kind of what a lot of organizations don't talk about, but it's just as important, add the same amount of value, go pick your kids up from school, you know, with that efficiency buy you more time to then be a bit, you know, and that, that little sliding scale between extra value and extra time, the point is, is it's not mine as a, as an employer, it's yours as an employee. You make move that, that scale. Um, how does that fit into your, you talking about the EVP and just tie it together? Um, kind inclusive, inclusivity diversity. Um, for me that just sounds like a wonderfully safe space to talk about, uh, to, to kinda attract people from all walks of life. So how does that fit in? You don't mind me asking.
Speaker 0 00:26:07 Yeah. I mean, I think that it's been, um, so I'll, I'll speak from firsthand experience. So working, working parents, I have two young, young kids at home and knowing that, you know, I am going to need, you know, about an hour, uh, like at the very end of the day, or like even mid end of the day, go to go pick up my kids from school, um, hang out with them, get them all kind of set up and then I'll, I'll jump back on, um, has been really helpful. Um, another exercise we did though, as well was when do you do your best work mm-hmm <affirmative> and some people, um, so some people actually answered that they do their best work, you know, really early in the mornings. And other people actually said, you know, Hey, I, I do my best work, you know, later at night.
Speaker 0 00:26:45 So we wanna make sure that we're actually, you know, embracing both of those as well. Um, uh, we actually have, um, you know, one, one employee that, um, they, they do their best work at, at specifically at night. So they'll spend kind of that morning with, with their kids and then start work at like noon, um, as well. So, um, that's, I think that's been just very helpful and supportive on that end. Um, and then we did put money behind this as well, because it's all well and good to start building policies out around, um, you know, kind of, Hey, we have this flexibility, but at the same time, if you're not actually, you know, supporting employees with different kind of perks and, and stipends for this, so that we're saying we're not only just kind of giving you flexibility, but also, Hey, if you wanna go take that class, if you want to, you know, go get a massage, like we're giving you, you know, funds to go do that, to enrich your life, to support you, uh, to support your wellness, to support, you know, your working, your remote working as well. Um, so I think they have to really go, you know, hand in hand, like not just kind of policies, but also, you know, the monetary side of it. Um, you really can't overlook that part either.
Speaker 1 00:27:52 Yeah. That makes sense. Just having like a, a tangible commitment from the organization, every organization has values, but how many of them live by their values or, you know, how many of it is words on a website and how many of them really act on those, uh, those, those values? I think that's really useful. Um, I, I personally, we had a, we had a budget and I bought myself a nice new pair of shoes and that made me feel great for the rest of the month and the Headspace app didn't, but a nice pair of shoes did, you know, it did end them sure for somebody else it's the other way around. And I find that really, really valuable as well from a personal point of view. Um, and we were talking a little bit earlier about the, sort of the changes in, in COVID and whatnot.
Speaker 1 00:28:32 Um, you know, there's a lot of sentiment, um, from employees kind of increasingly driven by a sense of self purpose and opportunity after COVID. So I find a lot of, uh, a lot of organizations that, that have a very, very strong, it could be a, an internal sort of employee value proposition that they really buy into, or it could be a social, um, value that they're adding. Um, but I find that a lot of organiz, a lot of individuals are that they want to fold this into their careers. They wanna really make a difference in that respect. So, um, is there something that's quite effective when it, when it comes to sort of enabling people to flourish in that scale of environment? Like how, how do you tech not take advantage? That's probably the wrong term, but how, how do you utilize that very positive sentiment coming outta COVID?
Speaker 0 00:29:20 Yeah, well, I think that, you know, everyone has a different, um, passion or, or a different kind of driver for joining a company. And, um, I even go back to like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs sometimes because there's definitely people that are extremely passionate about wanting to make, you know, make the world a better place, but that can be defined in a lot of different ways, you know, for, for me in particular. Um, I don't know if I would ever, you know, go work at, um, well, I guess, I don't know. I don't wanna say never cuz you know, you never do ACCS. Right. Um, but uh, for, for companies that are, you know, maybe bigger kind of completely profit driven, you know, um, I, I, I don't know like if I would wanna do that, but the fact that smile is, you know, really helping these, you know, small, um, maybe and midsize merchants, like get off the ground and running, especially with COVID where there's just been so many new eCommerce, you know, websites popping up.
Speaker 0 00:30:16 I, I find that that is fulfilling enough on the, the purpose side, uh, for me. And then the other thing I think on, and this could just be more cuz I'm on the, the people side, but being able to, um, kind of honestly like being able to be in a leadership role where I'm able to drive, pay equity has been really, um, re really kind of one of my passions. So, um, it's not more about kind of what the exact product does for me, but kind of what, what is the impact that I can have at the company. So I, I think you kind of have to have, I mean, I've been encouraging a lot of our managers have more open conversations with their team about what are your passions and how can we keep supporting you? Um, we went through kinda performance, um, performance season, right before the holidays.
Speaker 0 00:31:05 And one of the, um, one of the questions is like a, a look forward kind of what, what do you wanna get accomplished? And the, the passion side of it, you know, that gets into there. And, and so, um, I, um, have a new, new hire starting soon as well. So I'm gonna actually talk with them about, you know, what impact do you wanna have with the company? Where do you, where do you wanna drive impact moving forward? So it's gonna be a cool conversation. I'm really hoping that we can, um, make some, if, if not all of those things happen,
Speaker 1 00:31:33 That sounds great. You know, just having such an open, it, it links such a friendly human quality to the business value, right? Like linking that personal value and impact to business value and impact I think is, is certainly the way forward. Um, we're kind of tracking towards the end of the chat and we've into heavy, pretty heavy talk about and all kinds of other things. Um, in terms of just like high level people, talent, the, that we, like, if you had one wish from genie, you know, you could change one thing about that's you for the 10 years, what would it be?
Speaker 0 00:32:11 Oh, um, I feel like I could get it on a soapbox and talk about this. So I think for, well, for, for me, there's, there's two things that I think have, um, have already started to change and I'm seeing this in some places, but not others. So one is, uh, more investment or more budget in the, the people side. So the recruitment and the people side on the tooling, but also on the people side. So there are so many different ways to help. Um, people stay engaged for people, the people and the people function to do their job more efficiently, um, to cause them less stress to actually help them get more data so they can make more educated decisions. Like you name it, they're out there at this point. Uh, and I think that businesses are starting to kind of get into that wave of, oh, we could give people more budget, like, and that would be great for the business.
Speaker 0 00:33:03 It's not this like flowery thing that we're asking for. Um, so I, I do think that, you know, the, the people function at being treated as kind of a business function and not this like administrative off to the side, um, you know, capability, uh, is, is definitely coming up. Um, <laugh> um, it's yeah, the only other thing I will say that is it's slight, I, I don't know if anybody else ever feels like this, but, um, HR, like I do not view kinda HR or like the people function as like the culture police, the policy police. So whenever I, um, if I've ever gotten into a room it's like, oh, don't say that HR is in the room. Like, I would love for that phrase to just like go away <laugh> um, because it's just so, um, it's just not the way I view kind of people in HR that like, Hey, if you're, if you're kind of saying this, because you think you're going to offend somebody, like, you probably just shouldn't say it at all, right. Like, yeah. Not like, cause HR is in the room. So it's, it's something that, uh, I'm, uh, drastically I, or like extremely aware of just when, when anything comes up like that. And I haven't heard it in a while, but it's definitely something that's still there, um, that can, can come up. So yeah,
Speaker 1 00:34:17 I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you particularly around, you know, there there's been that view that, um, house, like an overhead, as you say, an internal admin pieces and kind service delivery, like, you know, receptionist or a, you know, sort of someone who, you know, fixes the lights. Um, we an actual fact, especially, especially in a hyper growth business and, you know, hyper growth used to mean 20% year on year growth. And now that's ridiculous. Now we're looking at factors of a hundred revenue growth for these kind of organizations with series a series B investment. Um, there's no feature in a product that's gonna, that's going, that's gonna have more value than what we do at that stage of growth. And some organizations still don't see that. Um, so I totally, I could get on my soapbox as well. Shout. Um, okay. That's cool. And just, just the opposite side. So that was like kinda a question that annoys you, maybe a negative. What about a positive, like you personally, you know, with what, what are you super passionate about? It could be recruitment, but just anything else what's really, what are you passionate about just now?
Speaker 0 00:35:19 Yeah. Um, I'll give a, a personal one first and then I'll give a professional one. Cause I think that's just always fun. So I, I, um, from a personal standpoint, like I really love tea. Like I, um, I know how, how people will drink, like cups of coffee a day. I will go through like pots of tea in a day. And, um, I find it, uh, in like in meetings or like one on ones with, uh, with members of the team. Like I just pour a nice cup of tea and I just listen. And like, it's just kinda like that moment to like center yourself again. Um, and I'm unapologetic about that, but I just, I, yeah, people just see me with like a new teapot cause I'm, oh, I'm running late, but I go quit this tea. Um, and then I think on the professional side, um, the, I, I guess like the employer branding is, is definitely something that I have been extremely passionate for about for years.
Speaker 0 00:36:09 And I think it gets, um, it gets kind of chunked as like an afterthought sometimes, which is frustrating. Um, I have been, uh, uh, a people team of one, uh, at, at companies and you just, you can't do it all. And so that's a thing that kind of sometimes falls by the wayside that I would love to not. Um, but, uh, that, that's something I'd love to, um, or I always, always love to talk about, so like, if you ever have like a, Ooh, this is a really cool thing or, Hey, there's a trend over here. Like I'll just talk for hours about, about employer brand trends and kind of what, what I'm seeing in the market and what, like any of my HR, like friends are saying too. So
Speaker 1 00:36:45 That's your, that's your topic of conversation? The bar after work, talking about that stuff. Fair enough. I'm from the UK and we do both a amount. Uh, so I totally with you on that. Um, well, well, Jen, I've had a great time chatting with you and again, if I don't stop now, I don't think I'll you so much good luck and, uh, hope to see soon.
Speaker 0 00:37:12 Yes. Thank you so much, Luke. I really appreciated the.
