Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 What can we do with those, right? The best people, how do we create the environment where they want to come in and stay? It's so hard to find the person who would be successful at the startup environment, because it takes a lot of skill and energy. And it's really hard emotionally to be at a startup. This is why once we found such people, we want to develop them into fantastically there's.
Speaker 1 00:00:29 So your baby hair, I'm back with another episode of scaling. So far, the podcast where we speak to some unbelievably talented minds in the startup and scale-up space. And I'm really stoked to introduce our guest today. The awesome Alexia Massaro Alexei is HR director for Peltzer a unique community of founders, investors, and quite frankly, brilliant people who are focused on building super impactful mobile consumer products. Alexa, I've been really looking forward to our chat. Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing this week?
Speaker 0 00:01:03 Thanks so much for having me here.
Speaker 1 00:01:06 Listeners, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? What's your story?
Speaker 0 00:01:10 Sure, sure. So, um, I would say my career is not typical for a nature person. I studied, I studied finance quite well, math and physics at school. Uh, but after graduating, I actually went to work for, uh, for television sitting in the news room, uh, being an editor news editor, um, a reporter on some events. So somehow there was kind of a child's dream to work on TV. And that was my first real job. But, um, when it came to see that, um, honestly I cannot watch television anymore because this probably is. It's just not my thing. After working three years, uh, on TV, I found myself at an executive search firm, uh, a local, uh, Russian firm based on, based in Moscow, we were doing a lot of searches for private equity, investment banking, some, some VCs as well. I've been there for six years. Great company learned a lot there. This is how I got to new target. Global eventually invited me to lead their HR function where I spent another three years. And then I'm here at Delta for the last two years.
Speaker 1 00:02:29 Interesting path into HR. That's definitely a first that I've heard of TV and segue into exact such. So that's super, super unique. And so you joined paleta, was it in 2020,
Speaker 0 00:02:43 Actually 2019. I moved to Minsk. I was still working part-time for target global. And I also started working for Delta, which was back then.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 And obviously being with the company through 2020, which was a year where health and being, and well-being quite rightly to center stage across the globe. Um, what's the journey heading up HR at Palata look like so far for you.
Speaker 0 00:03:09 I have the privilege and the unique experience to join the company where there was absolutely nothing. So, uh, there was not, of course, a single HR at Balta. Uh, there were no HRS at any portfolio companies apart from Flo, Flo was already quite big. They had, I guess 120 people when I joined Delta. But back then in 2019, I think the HR team was at flow was quite weak. So now there are probably like 25, 30% of the team left. Now we have, we have a HRS every company about 30 people, uh, in Balta. So we'll have three HR managers in-house and, uh, the Floyd HR team is one of the best in the markets, I guess, with a lovely and Roberts recently joining us from Bumble.
Speaker 1 00:04:03 Yeah. I still have that higher. I got very excited about it and Bumble and flow of both companies that I've followed for quite some time. And so just quickly as well for us, what exactly does pal to do? What's what's the company's mission and vision
Speaker 0 00:04:17 We about, uh, uh, by us, I mean, founders and people who work for Balta, we're all very much into, into health fitness, kind of men, mental health. So the mission, if I don't use big words is actually to create valuable products that change people's lives for better, that actually deliver something. We believe that you can make money on both valuable and invaluable products. So why make money on like, I dunno, casinos and something, when you can make great products that people would actually use and, uh, uh, get better in their lives. So this is very, very briefly what we're doing here in terms of numbers. We have, uh, probably an ambitious goal to have a hundred million subscribers for the whole family.
Speaker 1 00:05:06 Amazing that it sounds really cool and very mission-driven as well, which I think is exciting. And as you said, like, if you can help build companies that can genuinely change people's lives and how people live in a positive way, then that's definitely something that people can get behind. Right. Um, so what, what have your priorities really been from an HR and a people perspective you guys raised? Was it a hundred million series B busy time? Um, so what, what, what's been the focus for you, um, as HR director there?
Speaker 0 00:05:42 I think anything has changed much since we landed this round because we just got the funding, but I can tell you, uh, kind of the, of my approach to HR. I think, uh, as we are our founders, don't, don't like this, this word, but the closest you can, you can get to what we are as a startup studio model. In this case, uh, the, the larger and the more experienced the company gets the less support they need from the parent company. And so, uh, kind of my approach to building HR teams is to have a dedicated HR professional in each company, which has over 30, uh, full-time employees, which I think is very valuable because you cannot work with, with motivation. You cannot work with people from, from the headquarters. You need somebody onsite doing this work. So I see my, my manager major goal is, uh, initial director of shelter to first ensure the highest quality of HRS coming to join the startups in seconds, creating an infrastructure or an ecosystem where, uh, it's easier for people to work in terms of, in terms of recruitment.
Speaker 0 00:06:58 We try to build our own talent pool that will be used by the whole portfolio so that each company would not be chasing all those engineers over and over and over again. So we have quite a few people already working on that, and that really works. We have a hundreds opening job openings at the moment. So if a good person comes in and for some reason he or she is not hired, but started a startup beep bee can always come across and get this person on board. So that works really well. And we have a referral system for all team members. So this is what I mean by, by an ecosystem. Also there's a lot of expertize at Balta or the advisors that will work with that. The, uh, internal issuers can come over and get, because smoke at a small company, of course, you cannot hire a super senior in charge who knows this and that's and a super professional. So we hire young and ambitious people who want to learn. And, uh, also one of my goals is to give them everything they need in order to be able to deliver properly
Speaker 1 00:08:09 You'll point on, um, essentially take it or bringing the first HR leader on the ground, into those startups that you partner with. Um, is that, is that, is, is that right? It's the first is really the first HR person on the ground in those companies.
Speaker 0 00:08:25 The only exception would be flow because when I joined, they already had an HR team, but for, for all the, all the other companies that has been there and that we launched there has never been a nature person.
Speaker 1 00:08:38 You said that, you know, your goal is to bring in the highest quality person for that role. What does that person look like for you? Like, you know, what are that? Where are their strengths?
Speaker 0 00:08:51 Yeah, happy habit to talk about that. I had an opportunity to see how it works with various profiles, especially we had, uh, HRS with, uh, extensive recruitment background coming in. And we also, for one of our companies hired a very skilled HR manager. All of those companies were kind of 50 to 70 people headcount with us. I think a recruitment background works much better because at a startup recruitment is critical. So you can live without almost anything, right? So you can have Excel spreadsheets, you can not have like do engagement surveys and you can have a bit of a mess in HR admin, but if you're not hiring, you're not growing. So recruitment is critical. And in my view, recruitment and HR management are a bit kind of two different worlds actually. So there are people who are good at both of that, but usually you are either a great recruiter or a great HR person. So for us, for our startups, we start with a greeter. And then as the company grows, I would say closer to 90 or a hundred people, then it makes sense to also have an internal,
Speaker 1 00:10:03 What makes the HR person and the recruited different, sorry, I'm digging into this.
Speaker 0 00:10:08 Um, I've been in both worlds, so I can tell you my experience recruitment is a, is a sales mentality. Someone might not like it, but you're actually making deals. Right? You get all the dopamine and the pleasure of making those
Speaker 1 00:10:25 Yeah. Selling the opportunity and then you're closing, right? Yes,
Speaker 0 00:10:28 Yes. And it, uh, it is certainly such a great feeling when you see that you have found the right person and the right person has found has landed. The dream job in 3d works out and everybody's happy. Uh, it's a great feeling. And I think this is what actually makes a recruiter stay in the profession. HR, this is closer to maybe to finance. Of course it's not finance, but it's more on the process side. So a great HR person in my view, of course, is someone who can build and scale a process. This is, this is a bit of a different mentality and, uh, the drivers are a bit different.
Speaker 1 00:11:08 So going into that bit mobile and, and Eva ton of experience in HR specifically, obviously prides pouches. You mentioned being at target global, and what's one of your biggest learnings. Would you say when it comes to people practices, um, or HR specifically for that sort of fast growing startup scale-up phase?
Speaker 0 00:11:30 Okay. Yeah, sure. So, um, I'm much more of a recruiter than of an HR person. So, uh, probably my learnings would be therefore connected to the recruitment field. So the key learning for a startup is don't hesitate to fire the, the wrong people because, uh, it's small teams having their own person is critical to the overall feel of the team and to the overall output. So at a team of 10 wrong person is critical at a team of thousands. You might have hundreds of from people and it's still work works. So my advice for a startup take your time when, when you're recruiting someone better, spend another two or three months looking for the right person. But if your bet was wrong, let the person go. Don't give a chance. And another chance. And another,
Speaker 1 00:12:25 The likelihood is as well. They're feeling that if you're feeling that way, that they recognize that and that they feel that the similar way or they're conscious of it as well. So has that open conversation?
Speaker 0 00:12:38 I think it really depends on the scale of the company. If you're a big company, then of course you have, first of all, you have the time to put it more into the people. Uh, you have the process, you have all the kind of, uh, managerial process in place at a startup. You never have that. So the person has to be more, more individual. And the managers usually don't, unfortunately don't have the time and sometimes the skills, uh, develop the people. So if it doesn't work out, unfortunately at a startup, usually it means that it's better.
Speaker 1 00:13:16 And that's you say, you take your time to make the right hire versus rushing into it and then down the line having to do that. So yeah, no, I totally get that. So on the flip side of, you know, the, the biggest bit of advice or the biggest learnings, and is there any advice out there that you have heard that you'd recommend? People just totally avoid, like myths that you think need to be dispelled when it comes to HR and talent practices for earlier stage, or
Speaker 0 00:13:46 I was, I was thinking the most about this question, honestly, when, when you sent me the preview, there is of course, a lot of stuff you read on LinkedIn, which is about, uh, uh, find a job that you love and you'll never have to work another day, but I think it's so ridiculous that it doesn't even work. It's not even think about. But I think so talking about startups, which is my thing, uh, is that, um, you actually can predict how successful a person would be at a startup. In fact, you always make a bet because so much unpredictable things at a startup that, um, you can always, you can try to be more logical. You can do whatever assessment it takes you, you can, and you should listen to your gut feel, but you can never actually predict how great the person would be. You just have to live with that. And that's, this is why previously I talked about that. You have to be ready to let the person go, because sometimes you would think, oh, I made a mistake and this and that, but there's just startup life. Uh, this is not Microsoft or Google or whatsoever.
Speaker 1 00:15:00 Cool. And so for yourself and the team at pouter, what's on the HR and people agenda over the coming year, what are you really doubling down on?
Speaker 0 00:15:11 First thing for us still recruitment is the key thing. So our companies are growing very fast. We have a hundred open vacancies at flow and we have another hundred for the rest of the portfolio. So, and it's every year it gets harder and harder to get, uh, the right people because pre COVID we thought, wow, the recruited market is so tough. COVID wow. Hiring during COVID times is so difficult now think, wow, that had been not that bad now. Now it's actually, when you're struggling to, to get the best people, because there are more and more and more startups and everybody's competing for, for the best talent. So this is of course always the challenge to us. What can we do to attract the best people? How do we create the environment where they want to come in and stay? Second is, um, development of the leadership team.
Speaker 0 00:16:12 As we discussed earlier, it's so hard to find the person who would be successful at the startup environment, because it takes a lot of skill and energy. And it's really hard emotionally to be at a startup. This is why once we found such people, we want to develop them into fantastically there's. This is what we haven't been doing enough over the last year, and this is what we want to focus on. And third, I also mentioned that previously, everything with regards to a charter formation, uh, integration, anything where we can use the potential of having nine companies instead of one. So where we can work out on
Speaker 1 00:16:56 The point on leadership development, especially is it's a really tough market at the moment. Um, and as you quite rightly said in Europe, when the first point that you made really, really tough, um, so when you've got great talent, don't lose them because you're only going to have to go back into that tough market. So that development of the leadership team will help you from a retention perspective as well. Um, and to really keep those people engaged and on board. So yeah, if you've got all, some people do what you can to keep them around. So the parts of family you guys have got nine, is it nine startups across the UK USA, EU and Russia and Belarus and Ukraine, right?
Speaker 0 00:17:37 I don't have anyone in the U S so just Europe and post-Soviet
Speaker 1 00:17:42 Cool. And 600 odd employees total across, across the board. And do you go about people planning for scale? Are there certain frameworks or processes that you advise on when it comes to, to building teams at these companies?
Speaker 0 00:17:59 This is not my strongest part. And again, it really depends on the scale of the company. For example, Flo who are very big. They, I think, look like just most of the quite established companies, uh, in tech. So they have a hiring plan. They, they, they go, they stick with the hiring plan, but for the smaller companies, it's, uh, uh, we have to be more agile. The leadership team can never tell us that, okay, guys, we need 20 developers by the end of this year. So they never know they might need 10, they might need 20. So we all have to be prepared to always go an extra mile to get more than, than has been planned for, for a very small company, which is just developing. I don't think it's really possible to be super precise in resource planning. It all depends. It all depends on how fast the, the product
Speaker 1 00:18:55 Hiring plans do change, especially at that early stage. Um, things evolve so quickly and, you know, the product roadmap changes. There's an evolution in a certain team and you have to be able to be agile and adapt with that. Um, otherwise you become stagnant. That's like the time that the company is just this growing, moving organism, more than ever, you have to be able to move quickly with it. And being agile is a massive, massive part of that. So, um, and when it comes to like compensation, stock options, benefits, um, the whole shebang, how do you ensure that the companies in the pallets of family remain competitive? Like what are some of the trends that you're seeing, um, or feel might be upcoming, especially with regards to compensation and benefits packages for those fast growing early stage companies.
Speaker 0 00:19:46 We definitely, uh, try to keep our salaries competitive. We operate in, uh, in a lot of markets. So the cell, it is different in Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Germany, Spain, in terms of salaries, we stick to the local markets. We don't offer the top 10% pay people joining us from Google or Facebook are going for a lower salary, usually sometimes for much lower salary, but, uh, we are very generous in, uh, equity offering with us. First of all, every team member gets equity. So starting from an office manager to a CTO. And, uh, I think I'm not sure I can tell the exact amount, but I know that with equities, we're definitely in top top 5% of the offering on the market. So we'll go, we offer a lot and, uh, the companies are growing really fast. So this is I think the key, the key thing that makes us competitive.
Speaker 1 00:20:46 So for pallets companies, a massive part of the candidate, Juul, I would assume is, is the mission and the purpose, the fact that they're so purpose driven, of course, everybody wants great compliments, but a big draw for an individual would be the fact that it's an impactful mission-driven company that they'd be joining. Um, that might just be my personal opinion.
Speaker 0 00:21:12 Yeah, sure, sure. This, uh, this helps a lot. Uh, so people who are fitness fans, uh, who think about their wellbeing, they just want to be a part of that. They want to work with people who are into that as well. So it really, it really helps for us. It's, uh, it's not just words. It's, it's the way we live. Our founder gets at 5:00 AM each morning for a long meditation and then running and cycling sessions. So yeah, that's important. And people feel that this is also why we can get some of the best people around.
Speaker 1 00:21:47 Yeah. It's definitely part of the culture, um, by the sounds of it. So to keep people retained and loyal and really engaged in their roles, what do you feel employees are looking for from, from startups and scale-ups these,
Speaker 0 00:22:02 I was recently, uh, doing kind of a research for our career website and, uh, I had some talks with, uh, uh, new joiners, uh, with some, with some old folks about to see what, what is it that actually keeps them here. This is of course quite different for various types of people. So for developers, it's one thing for marketing people is the other thing. But to, to name something that would probably be relevant for 80% of the people. So first it's the cutting edge tech. So our companies work with the most recent, uh, all the fancy modern technologies and frameworks. This is very important for coders. This is very important for product people who want to put on work, kind of out of date, uh, legacy things that you have a lot in large tech in banks whatsoever. So once you are here, you're only working with modern stack.
Speaker 0 00:23:04 Of course, it's the dynamic fast paced environment, uh, no bureaucracy and the very, very rapid development cycles. So you can actually feel and see how your work, uh, is impactful. And, uh, you don't spend a year coding and just to see one line of code being, uh, implemented, right? So at a startup it's of course, totally, totally different what we mentioned before, the value of the mission. And, uh, it's important for many people. We hire a lot in, uh, in the post-Soviet in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, there are not so many companies in, uh, in this region that first of all, help this values to live by them and who have the global impact.
Speaker 1 00:23:51 I think some massive points in there, especially that we've sat in the scene as well as the fact that like, cause we, we partner with startups and scale-ups, and our people love the fact that they're working with super cool companies who are doing super cool stuff and it's genuinely awesome. Like it's, it's what keeps people engaged and motivated. Um, so yeah, I, I think we've got some shed shed passions
Speaker 0 00:24:19 In some way. I can say that we kind of combine the best of two worlds, the startup and the corporate. So we have the benefits of the startup, but we also have the financial stability of the corporate. We have the community and, uh, the access to kind of knowledge base and experts that you have at a larger firm, uh, which you don't always have at a smaller startup. So, um, we can offer both, uh, something from the startup world, something from the corporate world and the combination of that makes it, makes it very interesting.
Speaker 1 00:25:01 Awesome. And just a couple of lighthearted questions to finish up. Is there anything that you're super passionate about, um, that you really find a lot of joy in this can of course be professional personal or a bit of both.
Speaker 0 00:25:18 Okay. So as I said, um, I have a recruitment background and I still feel more of a recruiter than an HR person. So I actually love building teams. Uh, and it's my passion to, to think who would work with whom, who is a good fit. Who's not what team structures work, what team structures doesn't work, what should they do to kind of, uh, what are the things of this team and who would be the right person to feel the voids that, uh, this team has? So I'm really passionate about that. And my current role gives me access to nine wonderful companies. So it's, it's a lot to play around with. And, uh, this, this keeps myself personally motivated it engaged, and this is why I get up every morning to do my job. I want it to say, go to work, but we don't go to work anymore, which has opened the laptop
Speaker 1 00:26:16 Nice so much that goes into that as well. Like the thought process that goes into, um, yeah, what's missing. And I think that's a really key piece that, um, I think people go out to say, what do I want, what do I want, I want an excellent person at this, or, you know, the best person at this, um, scale or coding language, but actually what sometimes better is to look at the current team structure and makeup and say, what's missing. Like I might want something else, but really what is going to be better for the team is to find out what is missing and how I can find that person and add to that. So it's almost like a puzzle.
Speaker 0 00:26:54 Yeah, yeah. With people you never know what's the actual shape and it can change in very different conditions. So it's a very, very tricky puzzle.
Speaker 1 00:27:04 That's true. And anything personally that you're passionate about
Speaker 0 00:27:09 Apart from my family and my work, the only thing I have time to is music, which I spent all my free time. So I'm a drummer. I play with the bands for, for 10 years already. So yeah, we'll do some, we do some shows with the recordings. It's also a great thing. I totally love it. And each year it just gets better and better. So I started playing music, uh, at 14, which is not too early. Like you usually start doing music earlier, but there was my decision. And I'm doing that ever since
Speaker 1 00:27:45 Alyssa. And is there a value or a thought or a phrase that you tend to live by Alexa?
Speaker 0 00:27:51 I would, I would like to, to answer this question a bit differently. So there is not a single value or a single phrase that I actually live by, but, um, I was thinking, has there been any kind of leaders or any thoughts or any books that I read recently and that has, um, made a dramatic input impact on myself? So the like to put the number one, there would probably be, um, thinking fast and slow. Um, so I would recommend this book to every HR person, every recruiter, like every manager, because, um, you just start to understand how brain works. Um, and, uh, actually I'm a big fan of that. So I've read a lot of support scare as well, which I think is also brilliant in terms of understanding the, uh, deep motivators of people. And once you know that you can build other layers, uh, and understand how to work with people, how to work with engagement, what to pay attention to.
Speaker 0 00:29:01 And I think one of the, one of the first books that I read, no surprise was work rules, but last lost book, which was probably when I was long time ago at the executive search company was my introduction to the world of HR. And I still love it, although it's offense advertising of Google as well, but I just liked the attitude and the approach. And usually it's not possible to take the exact lessons from the book, but if you, uh, uh, inherit the approach and the, the way of thinking those people apply, then you can be very successful with people management.
Speaker 1 00:29:41 And is there a people leader or a mentor source of inspiration, um, that you have, um, someone that you maybe admire or think has a unique or impactful approach to scaling, especially from a people perspective?
Speaker 0 00:29:56 Yeah. Learn a lot from the, from the founders that we work with. They are very different. Um, they have different tracks track records, so it's really motivating to work with those people who are super ambitious, super energetic, again, as we have this unique community of people, um, you don't need a source of inspiration outside Palata so we have such great team here. That's that's enough. Um, also I have a, I have a little daughter she's now four. I learned a lot from her as well, seeing, uh, how she grows and how she changes her attitude to things. That's a huge inspiration for me as well. So maybe, um, wouldn't can think of someone who would be more important to me right now.
Speaker 1 00:30:44 I mean, she quite rightly deserves that most important place. I'm sure that's amazing. Now I think there's also, again, back to like seeing how people's minds work, that there's something incredible about seeing a child grow and how they look at the worlds and their different perspectives and stuff. So yeah, absolutely love that. I like say thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure speaking with you today and, um, yeah, I learned a ton about your journey and, and Palliser as well and what you guys are doing. I think it's brilliant that as you say, you've got such a community of incredible minds and founders and, um, the companies that you're working with a so, so mission that as well, and genuinely changing the world and how people work and operate and live essentially. So yeah, it was really, really great to speak to you today and, um, I'm sure we'll speak soon.
Speaker 0 00:31:38 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me over.
