Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Essentially it's from a scientist. I'm not a facilitator, I'm a facilitator. I'm listening to me and I'm facilitating the projects by serving R and D guys serving software guys, talking to the marketing guy, talking to the guys, doing branding. You know, you, you switched into becoming a facilitator from being a guy who had the bid. And you know what I really like though.
Speaker 0 00:00:28 Hi everyone. It's mercy Bryan here back with another episode of sailing so far, um, and kind of continuing in the theme of amazing science and how amazing science is changing our world at the moment. Um, I'm really excited today to be chatting with Camille Camila CEO and founder of biotech company called time. It is the protein intelligence company. We'll be hearing a bit more from, uh, from Camille exactly about what all of that means in a moment. And trust me, I am super excited to find out about this as well. Um, cause it's something that I've only been hearing just little snippets about, and I think we're going to get some serious knowledge bombs today. So I'm looking forward to that, but first Camille welcome. How's it all going? Thank you so much. I mean, I'm Peachtree and these are really busy days. So as you said, science is back, science is back big time with Biden, with restoring, you know, belief in science, scientific domain knowledge.
Speaker 0 00:01:29 I've seen pharma have plenty, plenty of work actually to do, to catch up. I think it's, I'm actually gonna potentially even get a tattoo made of that. Science is back. I think it's so great that, you know, we're, we're moving beyond the, uh, the age of, uh, media and speculation, I mean, to affect face truth. And certainly that's something that I'm very passionate about as well. So I am excited to be talking to you about this. Um, and tell me, Camille, tell us a bit about yourself, your story, where you were and where you are now. Um, absolutely. Um, I'm a physicist. I, I, I'm not an AI expert by no means I've started by studying molecules proteins, which actually don't have a structure. So we might have heard about it and DeepMind in the frog in protein folding. I mean, we work in protein unfolding, so stunning the molecules, which actually do not fit into world folding is, and I was incredibly lucky to work with people who pretty much defined the field. And the scope of that this program is doesn't have a shape and don't fall Khosla around 70 very debilitating diseases, such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. And, um, I was incredibly lucky to, to, to witness firsthand a lot of this work being unfolding in front of my eyes, having access to the data or so research. And finally, um, I very quickly realized
Speaker 2 00:03:00 That doing experiments, working with big markets and studying motions in front of you is great, but how great would it be to use actually computers to make a sense of the data? So, um, I switched from just doing experimental physics to super computing. So using cooperatives, which are massive grades, and you can call them super computers and trying to actually reconcile what we see in the lab, uh, with this super computing, you could call this molecular and computational physics or computational biology. And of course AI happens, AI, big AI moment happened and you know, AI has been around for years. Let's be honest. What has changed, however, was that people realized that you can use a graphic processor in your laptop, in your phone to do a very complex matrix algebra, which by the way, is a mathematical foundation of AI. And the whole revolution started.
Speaker 2 00:03:53 He has the very first application in cognitive cognitive systems. So recognizing objects, recognizing to perhaps you might have even used the Facebook app that shows you how you got to look in 25 years from now. Yes. And then essentially the study has been rapidly evolving and penetrating into different domains, including biotechnology. And this is what, this is where we are. And I think that AI is about, it's about to stay in that domain, even how much has happened in the past. Let's say two years in this space. So these are very exciting times. So it's a combination of bio chem, not biochemistry, it's combination, middle-aged killer, computational physics. Did I get it that like you did everything right? In other words, you're trying to use physics on a very fundamental molecule level, essentially reason, and understand the very fundamental laws of life. And what is the, what do we mean protein, folding, how proteins work, why they work, how enzymes work, why some proteins unfold, why it's impossible to bind some into a protein.
Speaker 2 00:05:01 Why is it difficult to make, to make a protein sometimes in the first place such as antibody? Yes. Um, and, and, you know, S as it is set in a, in a, in a, in general, in sciences, X over Omnia, everything has a beginning from an ag, meaning that everything has a beginning and the beginning is actually fundamental physics. So the five that we know how to design drugs, so we can attempt to use companies that design drugs is because we understood how molecular physics works. And we understand how Monica physics works because in thirties and forties century, people laid the foundations for quantum mechanics and quantum chemistry, and then we just obstruct to find it and we scale it up and we can run this calculations in scalable and reproducible way. So, um, now AI is making a very big moment in a comeback into biophysical sciences, because AI has been present in our sides.
Speaker 2 00:05:52 It's in nineties, people were poking around in the eighties, people were poking around. However, with w you know, once, once you have access to the bigger compute resources and more data is available, you can start doing really unbelievable things, unbelievable things such as you know, you see what happened with the COVID. Yes. I mean, 10 months from, let's say the scope three to the formulation of effective boxing. Now got two factors of play. Once is great science. The obvious is shifting the culture of doing science. Yes. So refocusing scientific society, refocusing pharma, one purpose-driven mission make a vaccination. So it's not just about science. It's also about the way you do it. And, um, and you know, and as I said, these are fantastic times to be in dub domain. It's fantastic time to, you know, close the round and have a really being oversubscribed. Clients will say, you know what? We are working on antibodies against COVID, or we are making a vector that delivers the maybe MRNs or some part of vaccination. And we will not to make it more stable. We'll make more of it. And we don't want to go and do experiments because while we do experiments, people will die. So is there a way to
Speaker 0 00:07:04 Figure it out? You see
Speaker 2 00:07:06 What I mean? Like before it was like, Oh, you know, um, we are making medicines, it's more efficient, will save us some money, but, you know, biologically, I'm not affected now, all these people who made the decisions, decisions, we figure out, well, maybe it's going to be my mom, or maybe it's going to be my grandma dying. I don't want that to happen. We have to really, we are all in it together. It's not any longer about a better concert drug or a better, um, you know, uh, therapy for somebody with a disease. It's a disease. It's a plague, literally, which like everybody on irrespective where you are, which should be life. And a major shift in thinking must have happened in order to facilitate all this great science, which is out there about me, you know, bonding together. And it's great that people realize that we can also use computers for that. And we can make a sense of the data using machine learning. And this couldn't have been, this is a Renaissance of computational biology. Seriously.
Speaker 0 00:08:04 I'm just going to say that again, it's a Renaissance of computational biology. Is that the mission for your company for pep tone? Or how would you describe it?
Speaker 2 00:08:13 The mission of what you're doing? Yes. I mean, you know what, um, to understand the mission, to understand the mission of the market, in which we operate, you have to ask yourself a question, how does the capitalistic world operate including investors? Yes, there is something which we call a Pareto principle or a power. Well, just to me, it means that people usually do eight 80% of the time during your day is spent on things which you would consider as useless and hypothetically supposed to lead to 20% of things, which essentially established that you had a successful day. The same is in investing. You invest in lots of companies with the hope that 10 or 20% will return the whole investment. If that's, that's the of venture capitalist, you see science works in the same way we evaluate, we venture out. We search for solutions for problems, which forced too.
Speaker 2 00:09:04 Short-sighted people. They see what a waste of time and resources only for somebody to come in and string things, piece things together, and just come up with something. Those transformers pharma, the very same farmer is also subject to this law. What does it mean? 89% of protein-based drugs must fail in order for you to succeed. Because from this failure, researchers saw learning, alright, well, that's the process. That's how to make more. That's how to perfect it. And essentially what I'm trying to say is failure is integrity, integrity, integral part of scientific discovery and the pharma space. And now, how is it related to what we do? We embrace failure. We say to our clients, you go on to fail. We're going to rationalize it. And then we're going to design a better molecule together. That's our motto is failed design. And once again, it's very powerful and important because when you go to people who work on seven different projects, each one of them got the investment 700, $900 million.
Speaker 2 00:10:07 The pressure the scientists are under to deliver is tremendous. You coming to them and telling them you're going to fail, but that's okay. That's normal. Like that's exactly how great science is done. You have to fail. Our role is to make a sense out of it. So next week, when you go, your chance that you're going to fail is mitigated or slower. Why? Because now we understand why. So why would you go to the lab and make the same mistake twice? When it comes to the body, there is anomaly and you have to avoid anomaly. And of course the more you fail, the better the system becomes a predicting. You know what? There's an anomaly new molecule. And what is, what is the molecule, which you are set to make would never work because it's just physics because you had the wrong hypothesis. What would you do?
Speaker 2 00:10:57 And say that? Well, then we are hoping to come up with a solution, which in a very diligent and meticulous way explains why, so that you can go to project managers, say, guys, this is not going to fly. We have to kill this program, save 600 meters and put it on a rare disease program to save 250 more people, 250. More people said is better than none. And 700 million burned on Sabrina legal research that needs to know. And as I said, a T 9% of protein-based drugs fail in 2018, 517, none of antibody programs were started 62 advanced to the space to a clinical trial efficacy study, 13 got approved, and now factor into this, the average cost of the full pipeline from $2.3 billion. So you see what I mean? Like the amount of capital, the amount of risk that serious of people need to take in order for drag to pan out is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 00:12:07 Now we could easily switch to discovering new drugs, but what do we, what do we mitigate the risk? Not at all. When you're discovering a drug and you are not fully developed vertically integrated pharma company, you are a Baker who is coming up with the recipes and walking around and giving to people, say, try my recipe. Hopefully something works. You create risk for others, you engage them in projects, which might be inherently risky. What we are trying to do is embrace this and say, look, big pharma guys, take the risks. Small pharma guys have an R and D and the great ideas, but they do create a risk. There must be somebody in between that facilitates the conversation and tries to use mathematics, statistical physics to actually manage and compute the risk. And at the end of the day, really I can slab AI, machine learning physics and whatever. Well, yeah, the Navix at the end of the day, that's the gist of what we do. We are hoping that with AI and also computational physics, we can predict certain things and thus compute a risk profile for our clients and the risk profile that will be factoring the decision process, where there's something should advance or something actually holds up promising moving in pipeline. And at the end of the day, that's really what we do.
Speaker 0 00:13:24 It does sound like you picked almost the perfect time to create your company and to bring, to bring your ideas out into the world. How many people are there on the team now?
Speaker 2 00:13:33 So right now we have a set of seven people, but I can tell you that we have closed around on the 17th of November. And essentially we already showed that we have not enough people anymore. Given the, how many clients came in with a request or interest in POC. And essentially we literally going to be, we are in a desperate need to scale the team and scaling the very different capacities of hardcore science, operations, project management. Um, and you know, we are in the process of figuring out, and it's not trivial, it's trivial. And to hire the right people, to the people who will also the team that will resonate with stakeholders and investors we have, or a future investors, you know, dust. This is my first big company I'm building. I had a full-time multimedia business before, but nothing compared to the two, um, importance and pallette of clients and financial responsibility I have right now.
Speaker 2 00:14:31 And I can tell you like, this is, it's fascinating to see how team works. And it's fascinating that you, you know, uh, you are essentially from a scientist, I'm not a facilitator, I'm a facilitator. I'm, I'm, I'm listening to me and I'm facilitating the projects by serving R and D guys serving software, talking to the marketing guy, talking to the guys, doing branding. You know, you, you switched into becoming a facilitator from being a guy who can bid and you know what, honestly, I really like that phrase that they say about hire great people and then get out of the way and let them be, let them do what they absolutely. Absolutely. I could not, I could not agree more. The famous, so many quotes, actually, Steve jobs sparks so many quotes not to be cliche, but he was absolutely right. Why would you hire a guy who's inferior and all the things on doing signs with <inaudible> and to keep the people motivated.
Speaker 2 00:15:31 It's not just about financial rewards, it's about doing something fascinating because all of these guys with PhDs, very, you know, high level, very highly functional kind of scientists. They don't want to leave. They leave academia. They know they take a risk on their career, but they still want to do red sign. So we need to keep things exciting. And you're not going to keep things exciting by pretending to know better from a guy who spent 10 years to solving it just doesn't work that way. You have to, you have to put your ego aside and say, you know what crap, like, what do you need to, to, to succeed? Like whatever you need, whatever is in our budget. You know, let's make that happen there. Just make sure it lines up with our development roadmap, for sure. But you know, if you have an idea on your own, um, just, you know, you want to publish something.
Speaker 2 00:16:28 That's absolutely. So you've just mentioned before, obviously that you closed around, um, late last year, um, you've got your 2.5 million new seed capital from Hoxton ventures found a factory and DRX capital. So firstly, congratulations. Like I said, I think, I think you must have the foretelling capabilities of Nostradamus to know that this was the exact perfect moment to launch this in the, in the, in the state of the world, but you probably didn't have full selling skills. There was probably big data behind it that had been processed to figure out that this was going to be the right moment to do it. But tell us off of that seed round of that 2.5 million, what portion of that do you intend to put towards growing your team? The 70th percent I could give you exact number companies like us. Let me be very clear. We spent a little bit of quite a little bit of money on the super computer center in Iceland.
Speaker 2 00:17:30 Um, we made an ethical decision to compute in a center where zero carbon footprint, which is called run some concrete, renewable renewables, and also cooling, um, you know, air cooling and smarter conditioning. That's one thing, it's a commitment to society, commitment to environment. And also our clients who also have a very certain zero mission goals. And with whom we collaborate and respect, but 78% is human capital. That's the best part of doing what I do. Just hiring great people and seeing them grow, seeing them solving a problem that will save human lives. You know, at the end of the day, it's for better patient outcomes. Science is great. Money can be great, but when you can say we will work, we were a tiny, tiny piece of a big clinical program and look at it. It's succeeded and people will get treatments every time you're going to go to a former store and somebody will ask for this drop each piece of you and your knowledge in it, you know, and it's incredibly rewarding.
Speaker 2 00:18:35 And we constantly talk about really, you can't, you don't have to motivate people. So scanning the team, that's, that's an obstacle. That's something really not trivial, but also something that incredibly exciting and rewarding. When you see that a group of individuals who never met each other suddenly starts working like a, like a simply like a really rare written piece and actually delivering incredible volume. Um, it's the most rewarding. It's the most really? I mean, I play a look on it when it's like playing box. You have, he written everything out, you know, he's a contract functional music, meaning that left left-hand twice something and suddenly right. And kicks in and you would say, Oh my God, who writes music like this? Just to make a perfect harmony. You didn't anticipate it. You didn't explain it yet, but the Hubble will be overwhelming. All the little things seem to be in a complete dissonance. And I shifted and that's exactly what is the best about building a right? Well, functioning teams are the beginning. Things are kind of funky. You pick people like a little nuggets of gold and suddenly you have this like really organism, which is fine tune and self-adjusting. And I think that's, that's honestly, that's the most rewarding part of my work.
Speaker 0 00:19:49 You did mention before that you feel like you're being a facilitator. Um, and you know, when you, when you give that kind of orchestra or the symphony analogy as well, it feels like you might be a little bit more than a facilitator and you're perhaps partly compose or partly conductor in this adventure that you're, that you're creating.
Speaker 2 00:20:07 I mean, sometimes it's about, let me be very clear. I mean, we have no shortage of ideas, but the best source of ideas, our clients and their needs. And on the end of the day in my domain, startups fail because of a lack of a product market fit, set more than 70% of people, not competition, lack of product market fit. What does it mean? There's nobody who is actually interested in buying things from you or licensing. What does it mean? You have to listen to the clients in our space by definition, my business is very secretive. You need to build trust. So before, before you land your rounds, before you get the money in the bank, you build the trust with the clients, you proof of concepts, you need them for conferences. And it's the same with the team. I brought some of the people from my team to the very first commercial contract.
Speaker 2 00:20:57 And I said, you, I won't do the stakeholder, the big form, a company that it's going to take the risk to see all of you that are going to be handling the data. That's my commitment to them and the quality. And I explained these people going to handle it. You're paying for their time and their expertise solving your problem. It's not computer software that is doing that. These guys, computer software come later. First of all, it's a human expertise in that room. And that's what you are. That's this project is not a single thing. This is your investment in this people in this talent. And it worked. And since then, if I only have a chance and nondisclosure agreement conditions allow this, I always do it with my clients. You need to understand who's going to handle the data who are all the stakeholders, who, who also reminding, going to do the work for you. It's, it's fundamentally important in building the team and trust is everything.
Speaker 0 00:21:52 And, and even whether it's the world of the, I work in technology, whether it's the world that you work in science or in Dade, any kind of humor in human interaction, that sort of foundation of trust and, and mutual understanding and empathy is pretty key to, to how we move forward and how we are successful together as well.
Speaker 2 00:22:10 I could not agree more. I mean, I don't want to sound pretentious or some sort of like in the Oracle or what or whatever, building business, doing business with people, it's about building relationships, right? I mean, relationships to the level where sometimes clients call in and say, you know what, how's your family, how's your son. How are things, you know, star? Is there a lot of snow, by the way, we have a problem. And that's kind of, this is the kind of service, although we are our, the, we are really deep tech company, although we do a software, which automates things, but the human element. And I also explained this on different interviews with financial magazines and specialist magazines, I don't believe fully in AI. I believe in AI, helping people to offload the work and facilitate collaborations. But I do believe in people, first of all, then AI then tools, then everything in the world, it's the people, I'm a humanist people are at the very center for me and for everything that happens. And, and that's why building a business is about building relationships, knowing very well, your clients, knowing your team and making sure they are also very honest and upfront about their limitations and colliding these tools. So matching your expectation and also limit against limitations.
Speaker 0 00:23:32 I'm going to ask you a slightly controversial question that you may, you are welcome to fundamentally shut me down. Disagree with me, tell me to bother in business, but in the world of science, from my experience and full disclosure, my fiance actually works in this space as well. So it's something I know a little bit about that. Um, uh, they, they can be due to perhaps privilege playing a part in, um, what access people have to education and what access people have the academia and an opportunity there, perhaps it's a little bit, um, uh, less, maybe diversity or different kinds of folks, um, you know, joining in the conversation than there might be in other parts of the business world or the technology world. What do you think about that? And if you are great, how, how are you working to try and mitigate that risk of your business building?
Speaker 2 00:24:25 I, I agree entirely. So there is a very big debate. There is a very big, yes, there is. There is, there is a very big debate going between underrepresentation of sex and different races. And there are countries I'm not going to be mentioning this straighten, but that countries where yes, there is a very big disproportion and, and, you know, the very, the very important thing that people like in, in startups, first of all, the very important thing that we can do with startups. Yes. Um, I'm nowhere near of resources of my investors such as Novartis. Yes. Um, as a big pharma company, but of all the, they do actually excellent job on inclusion and they have lots of programs. In fact, that it also inspire us. But first of all, very important thing is project the culture. Well, it doesn't mean project the culture. Don't, don't just open up and say, you know, well, if you're black, we, you are welcome here.
Speaker 2 00:25:22 That's just ridiculous. You're welcoming my company because you are assigned a senior professional, but what I need to do and why I, what I want to do is whenever I have a chance in, on the public forum, in a public space, it can be in restaurant project, the culture of the company. And if there are people around me and surround yourselves with people, not just white scientists, but you know, people of different sex, people of different color. Um, and, and, and once again, and also be open, open about the problems, which are, which we are facing a very big problem of science itself, besides inclusion is mental health, mental health, especially for ladies running a family, having a kid finishing PhD, it's a nightmare. It's impossible. I mean, for a guy it's impossible piano and do the things it's impossible. Imagine now having a chat. So what can we do? Well, it's very important to, to, to open up and talk about it and share your experience. How do you feel as a parent? How do you, how do you mitigate things also as a guy? What is your spouse? Who's maybe not a scientist doing, you know, just creating an environment where people can open up. And first of all, talk about the problem, but in a unconstrained humane and, and, and pleasant. And I'm just saying,
Speaker 0 00:26:44 I don't know, maybe it's born out of playing piano, but you practice things at the beginning by some horrible, but then you learn that after one model doing this weird moments where the finger can play a very complex piece. And that's exactly as the senior, you just have to, you have to practice this, I'm trying to say is finally, I'm completely against this artificial, you know, hiring campaigns about inclusiveness. It's a little bit, a little bit silly. And I think it's degrading for it's degrading for talent. You should work in a company because you're professional. Not because you're a woman black or, or, or whichever. Yeah. Yes. I'm gonna, I'm going to have to ask you a couple of finishing up questions now, if that's the right CML, because we have covered the full gamut of subjects today, I feel like I, I am certainly leading this conversation with more knowledge about certain things that I ever saw in my life.
Speaker 0 00:27:39 And I thank you. But in particular, I want to thank you for explaining it in a way that I have an arts degree languages, you know, so, um, to, to explain, to explain that to me and to hear your passion and enthusiasm for the problem that you're trying to solve, um, is for me, what energizes me, what I enjoy about these conversations that we have we've found is that, uh, for too few closing questions, I suspect I might know the answer to the first one already, but is there anything in particular that you listen to or read or watch the inspiration in your journey of being a founder? Um, yes. I mean, wow. Like Garlock, plenty of the problems of the classical cabin from Bach. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:28:29 That is one thing. That's, that's absolutely thing. I mean, look, I, I follow, I follow, um, I looked at blogs, I follow a lot, quite a few podcasts. I don't have time to listen to, to everything. I'm also a really big book nerd. Um, but I love Mark. I like the works of like seriously. Like, I, I love stoicism, although I'm nowhere near stoic and maybe that's what it tries to be. I'm blown away by ability of, of all Asian writers to absurd reality. And you see what I mean, absurd reality. What does it mean? Being able to just basically listen to conversation and read through the lines and it's in my business is incredibly important to scientific also. So business wants to do that and I'm going to repeat the name again. So Mark Mark is the works of micro-stories. Yes. So, so, so, and also, uh, also what I love is of course there are lots of memoirs, also famous scientists, not biographies, memoirs. I love,
Speaker 2 00:29:44 Yes. I'm, I'm fascinated how, by how this highly functional individuals perceive reality around them. And the really cool thing is when you look how they see the world and how it unfolds, and you have relatively objective body of work and history, um, yes. I mean, we live, for example, when I studied Einstein's memoirs, you can actually, you can reconstruct kind of historical reality, which he operated and just to see how a highly functional guy like this operate on a daily basis. How did he do that? Yes.
Speaker 0 00:30:16 Uh, I won't go down the rabbit hole, but I do wonder about him in particular, given what he was and the time in the world that he lives in. I think it must be a particularly interesting hypothesis to look at how he was experiencing the world, as it was say, and then what that then drove him to do in terms of his discovery.
Speaker 2 00:30:35 And you know, why is this so important? Because we are placing everything right now in the hands of scientists in the world with this dynamic conflicted and full of misinformation ability to look into four sources of objective truth. Yes. Objective truth. It's, it's invaluable. What's real. What's true. You see what I mean? And that's,
Speaker 0 00:31:02 I don't know about you, but we spent the last few years being told that it's all fake. So we have to try and sort of basically on that now.
Speaker 2 00:31:10 Well, no, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's just the ability to observe. Um, and, and just try to make some sort of concise choice of your own. How, you know, how do you live your life? Where do you invest your time? Not just money, but time in words. And I'm fascinated by whatever works I can, I can find on this, this really fascinates me.
Speaker 0 00:31:33 Um, and one final question. Can I, again, I'm desperate to know the answer, and if there were a thought or a value or a particular saying that you live by,
Speaker 2 00:31:45 Yes. And these are the values of Richard Feynman, who is my favorite scientist and favorite human being of all time was also controversial. So famous is a Nobel prize winner in physics, but he has become even more famous by being one of the best physical educators, physics educators, and explain ourselves of the problems. And, um, you know, I, I would love to even in, uh, in whichever minute amount or capacity replicate his success in explaining things. And especially when you work with complex things, and this is, this is something he's, um, he had lots of very famous sayings and I, I really loved them. I also, I also love lots of sayings and trying to live by them by Ernest Hemingway. And I loved his, I love his, I mean, it, it was very,
Speaker 0 00:32:40 Also very romantic, but credibly romantic, what Hemingway was the guy, whatever he said he did. So when he went in, in Paris, when he stumbled in the bar and there was a guy talking about some personal problems and he's drunk and he says, you know, walk, have you ever killed a lion? And the guys locally? I mean, I did, but any time. So like, let me just stop all the ramen. But he was a guy who said these things, you would say, what are you talking about? He actually did it. You see what I mean? And I love this about it. He's dramatic. He says these things, but he did them. He lived through it, like all that is there to running.
Speaker 0 00:33:28 You see what I mean? There's nothing better. There's no better companion than a book. You see what I mean? It's a really fascinating, very dramatic, but also very true. And I really liked that. And as I said, the study of character, he himself is fascinating because he actually did it. He was not just bragging. He did the things. And I think that when you did things that you have the right to brag and that's what I, well, what I'm really fascinated by it. I mean, it's quite conflicting, but such a short time that we've been speaking, I've got the impression that you are very much someone who feels or doesn't feel about certain things. It's kind of a, you have a very passionate approach to the way that you see the world and the way that you approach problems. And that is certainly something that I adoring human humanity, um, when people are like that and they, um, you know, they, they're so enthusiastic, even if it's a part of the world that I, I don't know much about.
Speaker 0 00:34:36 Um, it's just so interesting and, and, um, and unique to hear your perspective. Um, so for that, I want to thank you for the time today. And in particular, I want to thank you for sharing the story of headphone, which is genuinely fascinating to me anyway, but in this particular time that we're living in, especially fascinating and, um, and, and inspirational. So without wanting soundbite, but I wish you and your team fundamentally the most enormous luck, um, and growth and success in what you're trying to do. And I've no doubt that at some point in my own future, um, I'll be touched in some way by the work that you and your team are doing. So thank you very much. And we'll chat again soon. Thank you so much. Take care. Thanks.
