Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Um, on the second stream on the people's side, I think really it's just about trying to understand how your teams should be built out. So obviously talent acquisition is a big piece of it, but you've also got to look at rewards. You've got to look at L and G. Um, you've got to look at kind of they're the strategic people partner piece. You've got to look at people operations. Um, we hired a chief people, officer Ross say who join us from TransferWise if he wants to go. And that's something he's been doing within our team, just reorganizing us and making sure that we are also funny flash day to service the business, because I think a lot of companies, they under invest in people teams. And I think that's another piece of advice I share with leaders in not in a people team role, make sure you, you invest first in this because without your people, um, you know, you don't have a company, another episode of scaling so far on today's episode, I'll be chatting with talent team lead, HR tech, unicorn, or Sonia Cisco teams through hyper growth at the likes of Airbnb, Facebook and others, and is now leading the talent team proving to be a massive year for Sonya.
Speaker 0 00:01:18 Welcome to the podcast. How's everything going? Hi, Matt. Good morning. Great to be here with you. I'm going well so far. No complaints. Excellent. Can you tell us a little bit about your story? Have you always held telling the people focused roles and where you've come from and where you are now? Yeah, I guess so. Um, I like many, I did a degree in business management and marketing, not knowing what I wanted to do in co after college. Um, my brother had been working in agency recruitment at the time and recommended to me and, um, yeah, I kind of like a lot of people fell into agency recruitment. Um, what I learned was that I really enjoy building companies rather than kind of focusing on the sales aspect. So I spent maybe four or five years there before I had the opportunity to move in-house, uh, with Facebook. And, um, yeah, I spent the last 10 years really in, in people team roles, primarily in talent acquisition, um, but also been in program management and people partners as well. Awesome.
Speaker 0 00:02:20 Um, now, um, so that team lead at patriotic Unicode, Sonya, um, can you tell us a little bit more about the company and its vision? Yeah. So persona was mission radius to enable other organizations or better organizations I should say. Um, so basically our product allows for small and medium sized companies to attract support and develop its employees. Um, if you think about Europe, there's about 1.7 million companies that would identify as an SME, but added that only 1.4 or 1.4, don't have a product like personnel. And you know, so they're using the likes of Google sheets, Excel, et cetera. Um, and a lot of people think of Workday and go, Hey, what about Workday? Um, and of course work they're, they're, they're a great company, but they tend to cater mostly for the larger enterprise markets. So the defenders identified a gap in the market to, to build this product. And what we've learned is SMEs really what they don't want to do is have multiple different products and vendors that kind of want a one stop shop solutions so that they can attract, develop payroll and ultimately retrain great employees.
Speaker 1 00:03:28 Excellent, super exciting. And it's an ever evolving and competitive landscape, kind of the recruiting technology from ATSs to search tools and, and all of that good stuff. Um, the company's had a massive start to 2021. Um, last month I believe, correct me if I'm wrong here, but $125 million series D rates, um, with a valuation of 1.7 billion, which officially makes you guys the most valuable hydro tech company in Europe. Um, not a bad start to the year, congratulations to you and the team, um, on that. Um, so what's your journey been there so far? Um, you joined in June of last year, right? Um, yeah. What did the lead up to the race look like for you and, and the talent team after Sonya?
Speaker 0 00:04:26 Yeah, it's an interesting one. I've worked in, in some of the larger companies like Facebook and Airbnb have done the medium-sized company with clinicals at LaSeon. They grew from 1000 to 5,000, um, great company. And, um, it's kind of been like a, I would say, a grown up man Mandarin basically to go opera started from really scanned. Um, so when I started, um, to interview with <inaudible>, um, it became clear quite quickly, uh, what a rocket ship it was. So you could look at the leadership team and you could see them coming from companies like Dropbox and Uber and Zalando. Um, you could see on glass door that there, the ratings there, roughly 4.6, 4.7 at a five, and you could see the product actually, when you, when you went in and you demo it, you could see, Whoa, the applicant tracking system is better than anything I've used previously. Um, just very simplified, very intuitive. And you're like as a customer, this is something I would use on, I think the opportunity to join a company where actually people were at the front of it and the age or out the front of it, I think that was just too, too good to pass up on. Um, so when I joined, I felt like all the right ingredients were there just really believes in the product really believes in the people that were here, um, really enjoying and Jack put this, there's still a long way to go.
Speaker 1 00:05:42 Awesome. Sounds good. And you have a ton of experience, obviously in, you know, building teams, as you mentioned, it's very, very cool organizations, Abby, a B Alaskan Facebook, Sonya. Um, it seems like these kind of hypergrowth, um, super cool tech tech companies are your, your sweet spot, that map. Um, I'd love to hear personally, and I know our listeners would love to hear some of your biggest learnings and challenges over the last 10 years from a people talent and recruitment perspective.
Speaker 0 00:06:18 That's a great question. Um, learnings, let we think, I think really you want to move fast. Um, so don't be afraid to make a mistake along the way, but I think equally learn quickly as well. So always be kind of looking back at your previous few months, how's that gone? What can we do better? What, what, what can we learn? I think working hard is one piece of actually working smarter is another. So just being conscious of that, um, having said that in a startup, you know, I think there's always challenges. One of them is, you know, you've got, gotta be prepared to put in the hard work. It's, it's not easy. There are some long days. Um, but I think in recent years, I've learned just to make sure that I take some time back for me, because what I've learned is really it's, it's, it's a marathon, um, as opposed to a sprint.
Speaker 0 00:07:01 Um, and I think when it comes to startups, there's a wonderful opportunity where you get to wear a lot of different hats. So when I started in persona, um, you know, it was myself looking up rewards and hiring, uh, the people side of things, um, office management, um, it, you know, I was setting up the first computers in our office, our humbled office of seven desks. Um, and obviously over time, we've since hired additional roles, we've hired an office manager. Um, but I think it's, I think it's being able to just, um, have flexibility and being willing to throw yourself into different things and particularly outside of your comfort zone. And that's, that's not for everyone, which is okay. Um, but I think a lot of people enjoy that cause I think it stretches.
Speaker 1 00:07:41 Yeah, I agree. Um, and I think you, you touched on a really important piece there and you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint, um, in the organizations that we as recruiters find ourselves in and typically moving a million miles an hour, super, super high face so much that we can immerse ourselves in, but you know, there needs to be, uh, a balance, um, pace yourself and make sure you kind of take the time for yourself outside of the workplace as well, because recruitment never seems to, uh, never seems to stop the job that's never finished.
Speaker 0 00:08:16 No, no. I think the war for talent is not going to be over anytime soon. That's just, that's just the way it does to stay. Right.
Speaker 1 00:08:22 Sure. And here's a kind of sub question to that. How do you as a busy talent leader, um, how do you prioritize, you know, where do you look for kind of, I guess the reason I'm asking this question is that, um, we're, we will be in this position right now that the list is ongoing and new things are added all the time and you can't necessarily clear what you want to achieve or need to achieve. Um, how do you, as a talent leader kind of identify priority tasks from the many, many fights? Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 0 00:08:56 I think it depends on the roles that you're random where your focus is. And mine has been primarily on the talent acquisition side building, building, it just opened an office, obviously starting with just two of us when I joined last June. Um, so you need to make sure, um, I guess that the team is well equipped stuff, the right people are in the right roles. First of all, I, I know what people are, have ownership over. So for me, um, really when I'm looking at what we're building out, as you need you on assign where, where you need to hire first, what's most important. Um, and, and whether that's on whether that's engineering, it's sales, it's customer success, it's the people team. Um, I think that's where you need to kind of prioritize an effort to focus.
Speaker 1 00:09:36 Absolutely. Makes good sense. And what's, I mean, is that, there's probably more than one. Is there one piece of advice you'd encourage current leaders that scaling companies to pay particular attention to?
Speaker 0 00:09:50 Yeah, I'd say, I'd say really hire for culture. Um, I've got a phrase, never hire a brilliant jerk. That's the nicer way of putting it. And it's something that I've lived by. I would say for at least the last five years. Um, I think what I've learned is no matter how strong an individual is in performing their role, I think how they go about performing their role is even more important. Um, I've seen over the years of the teams, tractors can lead to toxicity. Um, so I think if you need to make a trade off there, I'd rather hire someone who needs some up-skilling leads a little bit of love and care rather than someone who perhaps is already there, but might be difficult to work with. So I think you've got to be really important. I think in the earlier days as well, you've got to overemphasize that, but also I think you're far needs to be higher because if you're only 10 people and you're hiring one person, that's a large percentage of your company. Um, so you need to be not afraid to say no. And I think where you've got 50 50 cases, I think that's where you're kind of should be leaning towards a no, unless of course you want to do a follow-up interview or take references, et cetera would just be to be mindful of that.
Speaker 1 00:10:58 Absolutely. This might get edited out, but somebody wants it to me and talking about their team. It was better to have a hole than an asshole. Well, that's one way to articulate it. And that kind of stuck with me as well. Right. Um, lots of companies talk about this, lots of people talk about this. Um, it's really interesting to understand how people put that into practice. Um, and I really do agree, uh, the way someone behaves or performs, um, can outweigh that their skill level, um, by many, many multiples. So unicorn status, a massive valuation. Um, as you touched on previously, um, a big focus for you, um, has been increasing your, your head five fold, um, in the Dublin hub, taking it from I think, 14 cents, even less than that, from what we were saying to do almost 140. Um, so I guess really keen for us to learn, you know, how'd you go about that? What's the process, um, in terms of deciding which teams need to grow the number of new roles that are required in those teams and, and what those roles actually look like. So I guess it will translating that spreadsheet, hiring workforce plan into some actionable, tangible, um, tasks and the results that follow.
Speaker 0 00:12:22 Yeah. Great question. Um, yeah, going back to the growth, your wife's yet 40 to 180, that's our big, hairy audacious this year. Um, and then globally 500 to a thousand. Um, so, uh, equally also challenging, but, uh, one that we relish, um, really, I think our growth is really focusing on three areas. So, um, I think first and foremost engineering is crucial for us. We're we are definitely a people company or also software we're a technology company. So without a great product, you know, like persona, um, you know, it's going to be far more difficult to do business, right? We want to make sure that the product is great for our customers, that they have a great experience and so on. So, um, as the product grows and our users grow with that comes complexity. So we need to make sure that the teams are fully staffed where the, whether you're building the product, you're looking at the reliability, whether you're testing, et cetera.
Speaker 0 00:13:18 Um, so for all stuff feels a bit like a no-brainer. Um, secondly then I think the go to market strategy is crucial. So when you're entering a new market, um, in each one assign what, what, what are those markets? Where, where are they and how do you go about that? And what we've, what I've kind of observed, I guess, from, from outside of that team is, um, obviously this past experience that our leaders bring with us, which is obviously vital. Um, but secondly, just not being afraid to test the waters and see where this green shoots and then of course then doubling down and further investing in that. So, um, what I have, obviously a fully fleshed out sales team, I have, it is more difficult to sell the products, um, so that that's another area of growth for us. And I think then finally customer success and operations.
Speaker 0 00:13:59 So it's all about, we'd go up bringing a new customer in, uh, but I'm gonna ask you to give them a fantastic experience. Um, you know, they're not going to be a customer with you for long, so you want to make sure that you're giving them that return on investments and making sure they know when to use the product. And, um, we've got a fairly large team in customer success where they're real strategic partners. So they really know how the product works, so they can look at companies and go, right. We can see your usage is this or that. Why, why not focusing that you're focused on this other area? We feel this could help you et cetera. So, um, we kind of do that. I think that there is definitely more complexity to it. There's obviously metrics and, um, um, percentages, et cetera, of how much you should be growing by, um, that they look up. We look at them also a market maturity model. So, um, when we go to market in a new country, um, we look at obviously the initial results in one sponsor, a number of new customers that are on and also then a certain value with dash. And then you double down and you go a little bit further. Um, so hopefully that sides of the question probably would have been Miranda by way.
Speaker 1 00:15:00 Oh, that's great. Um, and I think you've touched on a really interesting point there that both yourself and the wider team, um, persona sounds like there's a previous experience, right? Muscle memory, accelerated learnings, to be able to kind of make confident moves, um, in, in some of the hiring that you guys are making, which is, which is good, uh, accelerated learning already in the organization from other places, which, which certainly helps, um, from a tactical perspective, you know, you have all of these, you have to plan and in action. Um, is there a playbook that you have when it comes to building a team to support this type of hyper growth? Um, are there certain moves that you'd like to make approaches you'd like to take or initiatives that you think are absolutely go to, um, to kick off and ensure that you get the right people identified, engaged and, and hired. Um, some of this stuff might be top secret and you don't want to share, but some of it might just be your absolute essentials, you know, from, uh, uh, building a team to, to win from a talent perspective. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:16:04 Yeah. Happy to, um, I think there's two streams there. I think there's kind of, you know, the business part of it. And then there's maybe more of the people teams. So let me tackle the first one, um, which is the business side of things. I think when you go into any new company, um, you obviously want to realize quite quickly, where are we doing well, how are we doing well? What can we obviously continue doing? But also what's, we need to stop doing what do we need to start doing? And one of the things that comes top of mind for me is interview skills training. So you'll make sure that all of the interviewers are well-equipped to actually conduct interviews. You know, I did do situation or behavioral based interviewing, um, because going back to where I said earlier, um, on last Thursday, they're fully equipped to interview and they may hire the wrong people, which is, which is not good for that individual.
Speaker 0 00:16:49 And it's also not good for the business. Um, but likewise, you might turn up our pass on great talent, um, by getting false flags or false signals. So I think that's, that's something that takes time putting that together. Um, it's something that we took in an earlier years, but I think on a more global basis, something I've been rolling yet over the last six months. And just to make sure it's kind of consistent across the board and that's like doing workshops is doing plays, et cetera, and doing followups. Um, so that's one I would think of that would come top of mind. Um, and then I think the rest, you know, you mentioned obviously tactical side of this things to look at, like job descriptions, making sure that they're fit for purpose, really making sure that they're aligned to what this person is doing and what, what, what, what experience that they should bring with them.
Speaker 0 00:17:29 Um, I think there's a big piece around employer branding and advertising. So, um, it's all well and good putting your on for it on your website, but you need to actually get out there and make your name known. Um, and obviously social media gives you a great opportunity to do that and that it through Instagram and so on. Uh, we, we was one of the teams that we actually build 3d Ernie on them for Sonia. So my manager, I recognized that this was really a crucial piece of the puzzle. Uh, I'm putting a lead there for that role. Um, and they've seen since males, I've built out a team and developed a bit of a reputation radios that, you know, really good fun brand to work for, you know, very well known in that respect. So that kind of helps us to attract talent because people get familiar with the name.
Speaker 0 00:18:12 Um, and then of course you don't look into a talent attraction. I think, I think, you know, sourcing and head hunting is big piece for, you know, um, I am a believer that a lot of the time, not, not always the best person is always on a job board or applying. So actually going out there and speaking to people and, you know, having that first conversation, it can lead to something. Um, and then it's a bit of a snowball effect is by driving referrals. Um, I think things like the series D and series C announcement last year has, has helped us. Um, and I think just really having that robust interview process. So, um, for also for Sonja, we, you not only do just general interviews, but we do very functional or practical ones. So for example, we do a case study interview, uh, with, with most non non-engineering roles where, um, you got to put yourself in the shoes of that worker, so to speak and actually, what would be your strategy?
Speaker 0 00:19:02 What would you do if you were in this position? And it's really, uh, it's really good. Um, it's actually up to our bar, um, you know, not everyone just, there's a good percentage of folks that don't pass as random, unfortunately, but, um, it really allows us to assess if the person is right. Um, on the engineering side, I think coding challenges are really important, making sure that they can write code and the way we need them to. And then some additional interviews that we do that are not all companies might use with, we do a dedicated values interview. Uh, we've got a number of values and operating principles. So we have specifically trained values interviews. This is something we rolled out this year. Um, and there are people that we feel are culture carriers and they, they raise our bar. So, um, they have been trained in how to assess that using sort of competency based questions.
Speaker 0 00:19:50 And, um, and then one other interview that we also do that I haven't experienced in previous companies is a peer interview. Um, I'm actually reading like this, it's an opportunity for candidates to meet their potential peers, understand what it's like to work in the role of warts and all. And then I guess a chance for the peers to see, you know, this, this person live, you know, one of our values, which is team spirit. Um, so we've had, we've had situations where we've done debriefs and the parents didn't feel comfortable for whatever reason. And we really value that. Um, you know, we've had situations where we've actually had to find someone because they pass all their other interviews, accepts the peers. So I think it's really important to listen to those that are in the tape. Um, on the second stream, on the people's side, I think really, it's just about trying to understand how your team should be built out. So obviously talent acquisition is a big piece of it. You've also got to look up rewards. You've got to look at L and G. Um, you've got to look at kind of the, the strategic people partner piece. You've got to look at operations.
Speaker 1 00:20:48 Um, we hired a chief people, officer Ross, Seychelle joined us from TransferWise a few months ago, and that's something he's been doing within our team, just reorganizing us and making sure that we are also funny fresh day to service the business because I think a lot of companies, they under invest in people teams. And I think that's another piece of advice I share with leaders and not in a people team role, make sure you invest first in this because without your people, um, you don't, you don't have a company. Brilliant, thanks very much for sharing that. And I liked the way you went through that and the different, different layers of the business. And I think it's clear to me from the, the responses that you gave there, that it's very much about experience view. Um, and I really liked something that I think other organizations forget that the interview process and the whole experience you can, we can not argue with that starts and finishes, but the whole experience is a two street.
Speaker 1 00:21:43 Um, and it's about making sure that both sides of the conversation they're in a place to make an informed decision. Um, and I really liked some of the parents have used the simulation of challenges so they can patch in the experience what it could be like to work for the organization. So, yeah, thanks very much for sharing those tips, um, as you would, I know having the sort of talent that people function as a strategic partner to the wider businesses is absolutely critical. Um, but it's often something that isn't prioritized or invested enough in the other stages, as we just touched on became to understand. So from you and for our listeners, um, what have you found to be effective ways to establish that kind of strategic or partnership level relationship with, with the business, uh, ensuring that the people in the talent function and the people in the organization are at the forefront of the agenda when it comes to being able to scale successfully?
Speaker 1 00:22:44 Yeah. Great question. I think there's, um, there's a few elements. I think of your thing. I think first of all, trust is crucial. Uh, I think it goes both ways and I think, you know, one of the great things about working for someone who's, we, we feel like we're all in this boat together, this journey, and we're only 500 people and we're regularly all departments giving each other updates on what we're doing, how we're trying to do the best work of our lives and ultimately care for each other. Um, I'm a big believer I think, tend to attract great people. A lot of companies focused on talent acquisition that's was hire great people, but actually they ignore their existing employees. So I think you kind of need to look inwards first. And then if you, if you build at a great company, um, well that will, does naturally exude right at the marketplace is word of mouth, um, to, to get an insight into how a company is to work for. Um, so, so with that, I think it comes to caring for your employees. I think developing them, um, you know, if we think of COVID, that's been a very stressful year for everyone. So we've been very,
Speaker 0 00:23:46 I think persona has been great in the sense that they've done additional things that other companies may not have done. So, you know, giving, giving employees additional time off what we call self care days, um, to just, you know, whether you want to take asleep and take the dog for a walk or, um, whatever it is you'd like to do, you can take some additional time back and not easily through holiday, um, running things like at the moment, we've got like a virtual health, uh, two weeks going on right now. So you can take part in meditation classes, yoga, cooking, and you brought in some external experts for that. We've also got some of the, our fellow employees that have signed up to actually run that, which is really nice. We did meditation this morning after our all hands kickoff for the weekend. You know, you can be reluctant initially to do these things, but actually I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 0 00:24:29 And, uh, um, you know, helps you get into the right zone. And it also recognize that the company are doing, going a little bit above and beyond. And I think as an employee myself, I just really appreciate that. Um, so I think really just first of all, um, caring for your employees and think the heart's effect is a big thing. I think, secondly, then I think it's all about, you know, not only training your employees, but developing them and allow them to do the best work of their lives. Um, I'm a big believer, you know, an internal mobility. Um, it was a role that I held actually in the last year, a few years ago where I built at the program and it was, uh, it was, it was a great response to us and we found that there was a lot of employees that just didn't know how to move and turn.
Speaker 0 00:25:12 And he was a bit like the wild West. Um, there was maybe, perhaps some managers, you know, accused of poaching, you know, one employee, et cetera. Um, so something that we were able to go in and fix, um, and giving people visibility into the opportunities that come up, um, obviously with LNG, you know, you you've got platforms like you, Demi, you've got LinkedIn learning and they're wonderful tools, but I think you've also got the opportunity to stretch people on the job. Um, I think actually one of the best ways of growing is actually, you know, it's really stretch assignments or commons, um, you know, moving internally. Um, and I think as companies get closer to the, maybe the, the a thousand person Mark, I think that becomes really important. So again, that's another bit of advice that shares don't leave that too late, because what you might see is then you could see a spike in and unwanted attrition where people are leaving to go to other opportunities and as your brand grows, and this is what's starting to happen from a persona. You know, other companies are already starting to notice us, so we need to make sure that we do all we can for our employees treat them really like our customer. Um, so yeah, I think that'd be my 2 cents there.
Speaker 1 00:26:22 Perfect. Thanks so much for that. And there's often a, um, I guess a fear factor associated with, with scale, certainly from sort of senior leadership, but that comes with culture and the sort of the, the retention or development, um, of your culture and people worrying that culture be, be lost or previous people processes and frameworks can become sort of broken down or, or outgrown as an organization scales, particularly through, through hyper growth. Um, in your experience, are there any particular topics that you focus on, um, that you should have in mind when going through periods of hyper growth or hyper-growth is on the horizon, or are there any measures that you tend to put in place initiatives that you think about what we'll be focusing on in your current role as a result of growth that's happened or growth is happening? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:27:20 Yeah. I think I'm getting continuous feedback from your employees is really important. So, um, we have employee engagement surveys where we do a pulse check, you know, a number of times a year. Um, sometimes it is a bit more often because of COVID just to check in and I think more importantly, you got to respond to that. So I've over the years I've seen, I've seen these done before and sometimes really well and sometimes not so well, not so well when they've been done, but maybe perhaps haven't been followed up on or actually hasn't been paid. Um, so for example, like when I worked with people partner, it was really important for me, that data is real listening to the feedback, but also communicate, okay, look, you know, let's separate these into three different things, you know, uh, one is maybe some low hanging fruit, um, that we could fix really quickly.
Speaker 0 00:28:04 Let's go and do that. Um, secondly, this is a little bit more complex. We're going to have to think it through, but maybe we'll do a follow-up focus group to learn more and kind of just unpack sash. And then finally, I think you've got the, um, the situation where look, we're really appreciative of this particular feedback. We can't change this right now, but here's why, and it may not be realistic or, um, they've got to deprioritize it for something else, but at least your employees know that you've been heard. Um, and I think when in startups it is, it is hard work, you know, you're, as I said earlier, you're wearing a lot of hats. You're stretching people, people can get burned out. So I think really listening to the mood on the floor, um, is really important so that I think we as companies or as HR leaders, we can, we can.
Speaker 1 00:28:49 Right. Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree with your personal experience, that the communication of the feedback, Hey, this is the feedback. This is what we can do. This is what we can't do. This is when we plan to do it through the kind of the, some of the initiatives we're taking to, to solve this. Or as you said, I'm packing, I think is a massive, massive part. And I think people in talent and organizations are better at this. It's not as bad as the annual survey once a year, it goes out and nothing gets done, but they're far more frequent and baked into the organization's improvement, the communication cycles, but, um, yes, and really great information. I thank you. So we're moving into kind of like the, uh, the closing questions now. Um, and these are the questions that we asked to everybody that joins us. Um, what would you say is one challenge when it comes to scaling teams and or people practices that if you had a magic wand, um, you'd love to be able to, uh, to fix, make this a bit,
Speaker 0 00:29:48 Oh gosh, I had a magic wand. I'd probably say more manpower does a terrible answer, but, um, you know, it's, it is all hands on deck and you're trying to do a lot of different things, right. Um, so make, make sure as et cetera, your, your, your people team is scales up to deliver. So they don't burn age. Otherwise they're not going to be successful. You will be successful. Um, I think being a bit more realistic, um, I think people teams and the business just need to really manage expectations with each other. So, um, I've worked in people teams where there's a reluctance basically to say no, and to push back on what I, what I've learned in recent years is actually to really be an advocate for that. So saying, Hey, this, this is great. Um, but I should be, look at the bigger picture and all these things.
Speaker 0 00:30:35 We, we, we, we need to prioritize and actually just push things further down in the roadmap, as they say. Um, so really having kind of a focus strategy. Um, and that's another thing. Every due respect to persona, you know, a lot of people have asked me interviewing, you know, when, when will the company go to America? What about APAC, et cetera? What about enterprise? Uh, you know, companies? And I actually, I really liked the fact that the company focusing on Assamese in Europe, that Mark is huge. Um, so you don't want to bite off more than you can chew on. I think the same thing goes for the people's strategy as well. So, um, just not being afraid to deprioritize.
Speaker 1 00:31:11 Thank you very much. And is there anything that you listen to or watch for, for inspiration?
Speaker 0 00:31:18 I'll be honest. I'm currently doing a master's in HRM. So my time has been spent on books and journals. Um, I wish I could tell you that one podcast that's changed my life lately. Um, but I've been, I've been, I've been knee deep in the box.
Speaker 1 00:31:32 Awesome. That sounds good. And yes, I'm sure they're inspirational in their own. Right. What is one, um, thought Bali or phrase that you live by?
Speaker 0 00:31:43 I would say, um, we're not, we're not saving lives. I think things are always going to happen. Things will go wrong. I, I think you need to, you know, realize everything is one of our, one of our operating prop. Um, one of our operating principles is there's a solution, uh, over at solutions over problems. Right. Um, so for every problem that comes up, let's just figure out the solution. Let's address that. Um, again, we're not saving lives, that's just keep calm, keep collective, because I think otherwise it just adds a lot of stress to those individuals on your, on yourself. And, and if you're a stressed, you can't bring your best self to your work. So again, going back to what I said earlier, um, you know, you can fail, but fail fast, obviously learn from it. Um, but it's okay to make a mistake and also put your hand up and own that.
Speaker 1 00:32:29 Brilliant. Thanks very much for joining us. Um, and for sharing your story so far, it's been an amazing stuff, 2021 focus on yet. Um, and super excited to see what's in store for yourself and the team throughout the rest of the year and beyond. So thanks again, some real insightful learnings and some tangible things people can, can take away there. So, um, thanks again. Thank you, master pleasure.
