Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 You know, to go back to what I said earlier, it's, it's, it's having every personal wealth kernel adding value, um, which I, they do like, you know, we, we have a really great compliment of people, uh, but it's continued to hiring on that basis of people who yeah. Believe in what we're trying to do and are, are going to give it their role, uh, to, to get us through that.
Speaker 1 00:00:21 Chris really, really pleased to be chatting with you today. Thank you so much for joining us and, um, and for your time as well. Great to have you, you with us, um, for our listeners. Can you just tell us a little, a little bit about yourself to kick things off?
Speaker 0 00:00:35 Yep. No worries, Laura. Nice to be here too. Nice to meet you. Um, so I've worked in financial services now for 16 years and a bit, uh, pretty much, pretty much straight out of uni. Um, I was working with Barclays for the first 10 years. Um, started down to honestly, just a temporal, but then became permanent, then moved into portfolio management and then kind of portfolio management operations. I ended up there as a head of centralized investment proposition for the last couple of years that I worked there. Um, and then an opportunity came up. Uh, so I, I knew Koran wealth CEO at Barclays. Um, he actually was on my team there and then he left to start wealth Colonel and then he got in touch to say they were looking for someone to head up the operations department. Uh, so now I'm on his team.
Speaker 0 00:01:24 So it's a nice, uh, a nice little switch around there in terms of seniority. Um, and, um, so I joined wealth in 16, um, yeah, very back end of 20, early 20. So I've been here now for over five years originally as, uh, director of operations. And then this year, that role I've, uh, moved up into COO role of the company, um, as we've just grown and scaled over time. Um, that's kinda a very formal corporate, uh, corporate history. You asked me about myself other than that. Yeah. I, I, my background is a politics degree, so I never, never really imagined working in finance back when I was 18, but, um, I'm sure my 18 year old self would be, uh, horribly appalled, but, uh, <laugh> genuinely enjoyed it and, and, and it has become something I, you know, I, I like, and I hope I'm good at, um, yeah. And, uh, well, other stuff we'll talk about as we go through, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 00:02:20 Awesome. And it's interesting, I think to, um, you know, especially at those early stages, a, a lot of the time founders, CEOs do sort of think about their network and who they've worked with previously, because for you transitioning into the role that you are in now from Barclays is taking a massive leap, right. You've gone from corporate to that startup environment. Um, so it always helps to know the person that, that you're kind of jumping that ship with. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:02:47 A absolutely. And, you know, I have complete faith in Quran. Um, in fact, my, my wife and I had him and, uh, his now wife over for dinner back when we worked at Barclays and after he left, she said, I think he's gonna be a millionaire one day. And I tell that story and it sounds trite, but it's genuinely true. Uh, so, so when he said, oh, would you be interested? I was like, yep, sure. I'll come work for you. No worries.
Speaker 1 00:03:12 <laugh> so really your wife had a crystal ball
Speaker 0 00:03:15 A little bit. Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 1 00:03:18 Awesome. And can you just tell me, um, to kick us off as well, a little bit more about wealth's mission and vision? Like, what are you, what are you trying to achieve?
Speaker 0 00:03:28 Yeah, sure. So, uh, I'd say the wealth's primary goal is to the way I say it is democratize investment. So what we, what our aim is to make it easier for smaller companies and for people, you know, FinTech startups, like, like we were, uh, but also for people who haven't been brought up on the idea of investing, uh, in their lives, like investing just hasn't been part of not something their parents did, or it's not something they've had any like exposure to, because we don't give any exposure to investment through most education to give them access to the markets in a simple, straightforward, easy way. So we try to build, you know, easy to use APIs, um, that companies can then FinTech companies can link into to reach multiple markets. Uh, we're expanding our base of products. So we've got different things for different types of clients out there. So whatever investment experience they choose, if that's, you know, discretionary management, if it's XO, um, that they can come in and they can, they can access things that, that company itself might not be able to access. And hopefully it's put in terms that, that client, that, that individual can understand without, you know, the massive res of jargon or paperwork that can often come from going to a more traditional institution.
Speaker 1 00:04:42 Yeah. That's an awesome mission. I think something that's massively needed as well, especially from a sort of democratizing access to it perspective because you are so right. Like we don't get educated about investment. And it seems to be sort of, um, the few that end up going into that kind of, um, you know, that route, right? So actually, if we can just make it a lot more accessible to, to everybody and less scary, easier to understand, easier point of entry, um, it really does democratize it so awesome mission.
Speaker 0 00:05:16 Yeah, no, absolutely. And, uh, I think it's one of those things that it looks complex from the outside. And of course there are huge complexities to the financial market, but actually for an individual to come along and especially right now with spiraling inflation cost of living crisis, you know, pensions risks and all the other stuff. This is, you know, it's a space that more people should be in to protect themselves, their family, their loved ones. But like I said, the markets are complex and one does have to be careful with their investments. Returns are never guaranteed, and it's always good to get independent financial advice, value of investments can go down as well as up. And that depends on the markets at that point in time.
Speaker 1 00:05:56 If we think about it, I just, this just came to mind, like if you think about it, a car is incredibly complex on the inside an engine, the way a car functions, you know, it's incredibly complex yet. We all have access to a car like that. Exactly. The sort of the, you know, user and the product and the way that they interact, not necessarily everything that goes behind it. So, yeah. I love that. And you mentioned you came on board, um, as director of operations. You, you are now COO at wealth Colonel what's the journey look like for you since you joined? Um, you've obviously been with the business through what has been some pretty tough times over the last couple of years or so with the pandemic, especially. So I'd love to hear a bit more about yeah. What it's looked like for you.
Speaker 0 00:06:43 No, absolutely. So, I mean, it's interesting, right? The beginning, you said, you know, the transition between working for a company such as Barclays and then a company such as wealth currently huge. And it took a while for that mentality of that big corporate infrastructure to sink in. Like, actually we can do whatever we want, quotation marks, you know, we can move fast, we can move agile and that's certainly been our focus for, so I think those, those first few years pre as director operations, it was, you know, preparing to, and then in terms of our processes procedures, the way that our, uh, technology linked with our people, uh, you know, bringing in a, an opera small at start to start with operations team, um, and getting them like set up in a way that we could trade fast and trade efficiently for the clients. But then what also came into my role, and this is kind of where things have moved towards a CEO route and why that kind of became a natural fit.
Speaker 0 00:07:41 And I'll, I'll talk in a bit, I'm not, I'm not a traditional COO in some of the things that I do, but is that I took over lot of the relationship management of our business clients. OK. Um, and then, so underneath me to kind of developed the customer service team as well. Yeah. Um, and then we also have brought in investments and sips, and that's all sort of grown up underneath me and my world. And now I've got heads of each of those departments. So I'm suddenly in a position now where I'm kind of linking those up with our sales and marketing team, with our recruitment, uh, head of people, uh, with our head of compliance. And so I work kind of a high level amongst all of those. And that's really been like the evolution of my role at wealth has just been, I've been here long enough.
Speaker 0 00:08:26 I largely know everything that we do most of the time anyway. Um, and so can be, you know, a good resource to bring all that together. I think for, in terms of the pandemic, the last two years, we were positioned in a really good place. Um, not that anything was really good during the pandemic, but because we were a remote company, we didn't have to suddenly struggle to house everyone gonna work from home. We were already doing that. We were already basically a paper free business. We relied on technology to do everything. Um, so, so yes, it's been tough. We've obviously had to, you know, keep an eye on the markets and, you know, you say it's been in the last tough two years. I think we're, we're gonna be into year three of it being even tougher, I think, in the financial space. Yeah. But in terms of the way we run ourselves as business, we were set up ready to do that. And what's been really interesting is seeing how the rest of the industry has moved more towards us.
Speaker 1 00:09:18 So
Speaker 0 00:09:19 Years like ISA transfers, for example, so many of those companies still insist on paper forms, still wet signatures. God forbid, that's, that's been great.
Speaker 1 00:09:34 Yeah. And, but you are also like we were doing this
Speaker 0 00:09:37 <laugh>. Yeah, well, absolutely. Yeah. You can be a bit S smuggle about it. Yeah. A little bit.
Speaker 1 00:09:41 You're allowed <laugh>, that's super interesting. And I think there are a couple of things that you said there, and, um, probably initially with that role of yours now overseeing multiple functions of the business. Like the role of COO is like, how do you best operationalize what you are doing? And actually that can be from the sort of, um, you know, recruitment, the customer success, the B2B side of things. Um, and you are almost like that connective tissue, right? Like operationally, how are you, how all of these functions moving at the same speed and how are they connecting? So, yeah, like having that kinda connective tissue role where you you've got that holistic view of each of those functions and, and if operationally they're working as well as they could be. Right.
Speaker 0 00:10:31 Yeah. Absolutely. And that's, that's certainly what I'm now trying to be. Now. We've got some brilliant people to kind head up each of those departments, I don't have to be involved in the day to day those areas. Um, and can spend more time as you say, the operational at the strategy alongside Koran and the rest of the board. So it's yeah. It's, it's been a
Speaker 1 00:10:55 Bit busy <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:10:57 Yeah. I'm I, I would say I'm never very rarely bored. Very rarely bored,
Speaker 1 00:11:02 Nice challenge every day. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:11:04 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:11:05 Awesome. And yeah, I think what you mentioned about that, um, you know, the, the sort of industry catching up with, with your, and your team, obviously being remote first from launch. Yeah. You were able to see everybody sort of having to transition to that. We were in a similar situation at seed. We've been remote first, since 13, everything we do is set up to be optimized, to be remote. Um, so when it all happened, it was sort of like, we've doing this for a while, but like, how do we share that knowledge? How do we like make sure that, you know, we've, we've tried and tested things, here are a few things that other people can try. So it is interesting, cause it was almost sort of 10 years of innovation within the matter of what two months when we realized that there would be a global lockdown. So, um, yeah, when, you know, when pressure's put on <laugh>, um, good things can come out of it in a absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:12:02 And it's, and it's difficult. And even now I'd say we still face, you know, challenges with, I think training's quite difficult, new joiners. You don't have that experience of sitting next to someone and kind of hearing what they're doing and saying, oh, can I ask a question about that? So we have to find ways of making that, finding artificial ways of making that natural experience that we had back in when we all worked in offices still happen and still be easily accessible so people can learn. And,
Speaker 1 00:12:33 And it's quite helpful. I've, I've seen this, especially recently, it's like new bits of tech emerging that are connecting those
Speaker 0 00:12:41 Docs. Definitely
Speaker 1 00:12:42 Like I'll have to find this actually, and it afterwards, but an aside
Speaker 1 00:12:48 Of, I always said, I've always worked in a remote office. So my previous company was in Australia. I was in the London office and I sat, I was working closely with the product team. I was like, I just wish I could be a fly on the wall in some of those conversations where I just absorb and I'm, I don't need an active conversation with somebody, but I need to just listen to the decision making process and you know, why they're doing what they're doing. And there's now a bit of tech that does that. Essentially you have like these virtual office environments that you are logged into on your desktop and you can hear and have a chat. And yeah. I just think it's brilliant what people are now building.
Speaker 0 00:13:32 That's amazing. I haven't seen that. Yeah. I'd love to, I'd love to have a look at that.
Speaker 1 00:13:35 Yeah. I'll, I'll dig it out and find the link and share it with you right back to, uh, back to wealth.
Speaker 0 00:13:44 <laugh> sure.
Speaker 1 00:13:45 So the company has been nominated, um, for wealth tech company the year at the FinTech London award. So firstly, massive congrats on that. Such an achievement and really, really good recognition as well of, of the work that you're doing and, and what you're building. Um, your team is now, is it 50 odd people
Speaker 0 00:14:03 Think we've just surpassed 60. I think we're into this, into the sixties now. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:14:08 Nice. And, um, on, on that sort of talent and people front, what, what's your approach been to, to really building and scaling that team to where it's today?
Speaker 0 00:14:18 Sure. So I, I mean the, the high level answer is, is maybe a little cliche, but yeah, it's it, it's trust it's transparency and it's mutual respect and it's showing that from the highest level all the way down. Um, I, I can honestly say that I, I don't think I've ever heard anyone raise their voice in a harsh way at wealth Colonel. Like we just have an understanding that people will treat one another with a level of respect that everyone is here to, you know, to do a good job, uh, to, um, you know, everyone cares about what they're doing, doing, everyone's passionate about what they're doing. So let's trust in one another of that, of course, you know, people make mistakes when you do it's, it's, it's having that level of, you know, responsibility that everyone's wanting, just put their hand up and say made a mistake.
Speaker 0 00:15:04 It's what it is. Let's get it resolved. And largely, I think we've got that. We've got that down. <laugh> um, we aim for, you know, everyone should feel valued. Everyone's opinion should be respected. I think for a long time, we definitely said we're a flat culture. I think naturally there has to be a bit of hierarchy that evolves over time. You get to a certain size where you just can't like, we are now getting to a point where I'm, I don't necessarily know everyone who joins the company at any single point in time, because we've just got that many people now in. Um, but still we are still a business where the most junior person can get face to face time with someone on the exec board without any trouble at all. In fact, they're likely to be in a meeting with them and their voice counts for just as much when being asked for feedback. Um, and we, you know, we've, we've developed a strong kind exec team, um, which has our head of people on it who oversees the recruitment side of things and then myself and then head of compliance our CTO and as well, we, the culture we have on that level, we, we, we like to see throughout the company. So the way we do our meetings, you know, allowing, making sure people are acting in a similar
Speaker 1 00:16:19 Way. Yeah. Brilliant. No, that sounds, um, yeah. Sounds like you've built the team in a really sounds like you've built the team in a really, um, yeah. With a positive culture from the often as you say, you know, having it reflective of the way that you operate as an exec leadership team, um, and permeating that down as well, which is brilliant. And I think with, um, especially that like early stage tech company, um, you want people to make mistakes. Like if you're not, if you're not making mistakes, like, are you innovating? Are you pushing and had a really good conversation with, um, one of the engineering leads at delivery hero, um, a few weeks back and, and he said, you know, you there's parts that you do have to play it safe, but actually you need those individuals or teams that give it that kinda 10 X, they push it a bit because otherwise you stagnate. Right. Um, which I interesting.
Speaker 0 00:17:23 No, definitely. You learn from, you learn from the errors you make and you do better next time and you find solutions for it. Absolutely
Speaker 1 00:17:33 Brilliant. And, and as COO, like what, what collaboration and involvement do you have sort with the talent, um, people side of the business, like you mentioned that, you know, you've got a head of people who mainly, um, manages that side, like is workforce planning, operationalizing recruitment. Is that something that, that you get involved in and, and how, how does it tie in with the other functions that you are focused on?
Speaker 0 00:17:59 Sure. I think, um, largely is still shared across the, across the exec board. There's a certain amount of autonomy that each area has control over its own recruitment, where need is, we'll talk about that as a, as a wide overarching strategy. And so certainly I'm involved in those conversations, cuz we're all talking about them, but it's not so much. And I think, you know, I can't, I think I said earlier now, I'm I don't necessarily meet the full criteria of what, uh, a traditional kind of corporate style COO might do. And this is one of those areas where I haven't, that hasn't come under my full wheelhouse yet. Yeah. Um, but that's kind of fun again, it's been natural development and the way we've got it working right now is, is working quite well. Um, I think, yeah, our, our recruitment is led by the people team and it's led by it's led by need and resource and kind of like the, the, the vision path of how we're gonna grow. That's kind of what we drive towards. And so our, our hiring is quite tactical, um, uh, across the company obviously has to be, you know, we've gotta be strategic in the way that we do that. Um, and we have some certain growth areas, which, uh, I think we'll get to in a little bit, but right now, which is where our focus is
Speaker 1 00:19:11 Nice. And maybe we will get to that now.
Speaker 0 00:19:14 <laugh> OK. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:19:15 Can you look for the next sort of 12 to 18 months? Um, yeah. What are those focuses for wealth as a business? What, what are you really prioritizing?
Speaker 0 00:19:25 Um, so as with, I think, any FinTech scale up, uh, we've got a lot of plate spinning in the air and, uh, like to add a few more just to, uh, look even more impressive, um, <laugh> or terrifying your here, but, uh, yeah. Um, our, um, our main three focuses right now are accumulation sip. Um, we, we recently started offering consolidation sip on our platform, um, in the last six to eight months. So we want to add accumulation sip to that. Um,
Speaker 1 00:19:57 So can you tell me a bit more about what those are?
Speaker 0 00:20:00 I can absolutely. So consolidation, sip, um, has become more of a, a popular thing in the UK, especially with people moving jobs more regularly. So because everyone's now got a workplace pension, you can very quickly wrap up 4, 5, 6, uh, pensions. Yeah. You know, before you, before you're in your mid thirties. Um, and so the offering is now there to bring those pensions together under one, one place into one. Um, you don't top them up around anything, but least are all in one place and you, you can go and look at them as one whole holistic thing. Um, and accumulation sit is more of a traditional style. You're literally setting up your own self invested, personal, personal pension, um, under a, under one of the companies that works with us. And that's what we wanna roll out this year, because especially those companies that use our tech that are trying to provide, um, a fully rounded investment experience. So it's not just, you can have an investment account. It's do you want an nicer, do you want a jive for your kids? Do you want, um, you know, do you want a savings account, et cetera? Yeah. Then we wanna add pensions into that as well. So that can be something that they can bring in under that world.
Speaker 1 00:21:13 Sure. Thank you for that.
Speaker 0 00:21:14 No, that's quite, um, and then we're, so the other two things are, we're looking to expand into Europe, um, and that's when we're working on very heavily over the last 18 months, and we want to be able to offer intra day trading for direct equities. Um, so right now, um, our trading is on a day by day basis. Um, but there's a huge amount demand out there right now, uh, which we see in, in other, um, in other FinTech companies that are providing this to be able to trade throughout the day while the markets are open, you can buy and sell, manage own investments. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so we're, we're integrating with, uh, brokers right now to make that possible. And that's, uh, and you said 12 months, I've only really focused on the next six, but
Speaker 1 00:22:01 Quickly.
Speaker 0 00:22:02 Yeah. That's sort of where that's sort of, you know, those three things by the end of this year, that would feel a huge achievement, a big milestone for us to moved into those things.
Speaker 1 00:22:12 So are you live in the UK at the moment? Yes. And, and, and do you know which, which country is that in, in the rest of Europe you're sort of focused on or hoping to launch to
Speaker 0 00:22:21 Next? Uh, yeah. We're looking at Spain and Lithuania countries. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 All of them very exciting. Well, best of luck with those. And, um, and, and yeah. Is it, is it just a market launch where you building teams there or
Speaker 0 00:22:36 So we already have people working in both those countries and in other countries as well, again, being remote, we've been able to be higher reasonably wherever we want. Yeah. So we've got quite a large, uh, it's, it's gotta be getting close to percent of wealth kernel, uh, team is now in Spain. OK. Got a few people, couple people in Lithuania and a few people elsewhere
Speaker 1 00:22:57 Too. Yeah. And having those people on the ground there is so incredibly valuable, like not just from a presence perspective, but also to be able to feedback and to understand the sort of cultural nuances and, and what might be different there hugely, hugely valuable. So
Speaker 0 00:23:13 Absolutely. And I'm, you know, I I've, I've never worked outside the UK. Um, and so it's a big like, learning experience, not just from just a, you know, opening a, a company in tho in those countries, but also the regulatory environment, the financial environment over there is so different. Yeah. Um, and, and so it's learning about that and learning how that works and how to marry up the two, the UK offering with these, these new, uh, parts of the company.
Speaker 1 00:23:40 Yeah. Brilliant. And the benefits of being able to have a remote team right. Is, is having people in all of these different locations. So exactly awesome. Well, hopefully we can catch up once you've launched there and, um, we'll hear what a success it's been and, and some of the
Speaker 0 00:23:55 Learnings, happily look forward to tell you all about it.
Speaker 1 00:23:58 Awesome. So for you, um, what have, have been some of the biggest learnings, um, in your journey so far, whether that's a wealth or, um, you know, Barclays previously, especially when it comes to sort of building and, and leading teams.
Speaker 0 00:24:15 So <laugh>, I think, would probably say the strength I have is that people like me and people will do things and once do a good job because of that. Like, I'm, I'm a, I, without sounding too egotistical, I know I'm a good manager. I'm good at managing people. I'm good at managing teams. I'm good at helping develop people, supporting people. And I do like to give people the benefit, the doubt, I like people to allow people to have the time, to make mistakes, to grow and learn. It's not about coming in and being perfect, but coming in and becoming really good at your job over time, through experience, a weakness I have is that I like people. Uh, and, and sometimes that benefit, the doubt can't be extended forever. And I think I have had to learn that not everyone is gonna be as passionate, um, or is driven about something that, that you are, and not, everyone's gonna buy into something as intense and stressful that fintechs, uh, can be at times.
Speaker 0 00:25:14 Um, and that that's OK. Yeah. And it's learning to recognize that, and it's learning to say to people, you know what, you've been great. This will work really well, but this is, you know, we're, we're going in different directions here without like, internalizing that too much. Um, so I think learning to be a little bit more dispassionate is the wrong word. Cause I think I always care. You never want to upset anyone. You never want to hurt anybody, but I think learning to just be direct and it's not a personal thing, it's not a, you know, you might, you, you might upset someone by being honest, but the honesty still matters. And as long as its put across in a kind considerate empathetic way yeah. That is literally the best you can do. You cannot be things, all people, um, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:26:01 That's a great bit of advice and, and yeah. A big learning as well. Um, something that I, I'm also learning, <laugh>,
Speaker 0 00:26:08 It's hard, it's hard,
Speaker 1 00:26:10 It's hard. And I think as well, like it something like, um, you know, what you were saying, like passion and that kind of commitment to the, to the vision and, and something that is quite difficult, that is actually tough to, um, take into account in a recruitment process. Like how do you measure passion for something? How do you measure tenacity or resilience? Like, that's really hard to say beforehand, yes, this person has this until they are within that environment. And that's probably the toughest thing because yeah. How, how do you do that? I, I dunno if you can,
Speaker 0 00:26:46 <laugh> in an hour long, the interview, I think it's nearly impossible. Yeah. I think you have to, you know, kind of rely on their track record and rely on how they put themselves across. And then there is an element there's an element of trust in recruitment process on both sides, you know, your trusting that they're gonna come in and do B and who, what they say they are, but they're trusting you that you are gonna take care of them and that you are gonna be the environment you yourself to be. I think we've all interviewed for jobs. Um, you know, in the past, I mean, my mom was a long time ago, but certainly back when I was just doing random jobs as a student or whatever, you'd interview for a job and they go, oh, it's this and that. And you'd start, you'd be like, it's none of those things.
Speaker 1 00:27:23 Yeah. So right. And that's, um, something that not, yeah, we, I was speaking with our head of TA, um, about, or she mentioned actually previously, is you almost not. Yeah. Kind of. There's an anti sell element of recruitment. Like you want to be able to say, especially in a startup and a, you know, fast growing company, you want to be able to say, it's really hard. Like sometimes you're gonna come across this barrier and this, and it's not all gonna be sort of roses. Like it's gonna be tough. And I, I think being honest, you have a duty to do that as, as a, as a manager and as a company is to say, this is what you should expect. Um, and you know, what, and all
Speaker 0 00:28:11 <laugh>. Yeah. Def yeah, definitely. Absolutely. You know, it's, it's important to make people feel excited about the proposition, but as you say, just to be, just to be reasonably direct about how it's gonna be, and that's okay. Nothing's perfect. You know, but as long as I think, you know, I think the other thing I've learned, um, is that I like challenge. I might, I probably didn't really know that about myself before. Barleys, I mean, no, sorry, not before barleys joined. Maybe the last couple of years when I took on that last role there, that was hard. And that I got really like into wealth. Like I'm, again, it sounds trite, but it's genuinely true. I like, I am excited by what we're trying to do. It's sometimes incredibly tough and sometimes, you know, like I need a weekend, but I, but I am, but you know, I am excited by it. And there's no, there's no time where like you just trying to clock watching or waiting for the day to end or anything like that. If anything, like slow down, please, I can be little like 10 hours. Um, I'm a bit of a night owl. So, uh, I do like that feeling of, uh, sometimes I'll work a bit late into the evening and, you know, solving a problem at kind 11 o'clock 1130 at night and thinking, oh, this is gonna improve things tomorrow. That's always quite a good feeling.
Speaker 1 00:29:21 Yeah. You go to know you've got one less thing to tackle in the morning.
Speaker 0 00:29:27 Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:29:29 Um, and obviously like we've all seen news articles on the, you know, macro economy and, and how this is impacting the tech space. And, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's pretty overwhelming right now to be, be honest. And, um, at wealth you are, you are continuing to hire and, and your team, is it business as usual for you or are there certain measures that you are, you are really taking to make sure you're set up for success and ready for what could be potentially bumpy road ahead?
Speaker 0 00:29:59 Yeah, we're, we're in a very strong position. Fortunately, uh, we had a funding round just before the close, just before Christmas, um, which has given us a fair bit of runway. Yeah. Um, so from that point of view, that's a real positive and we definitely see a huge amount of growth coming in terms of what we're offering and in, in, you know, in terms of propositions that we have in the pipeline companies that wanna work with us, et cetera. Um, but I, I don't obviously there's no getting away from the, the threat of a global slowdown, the national recession cost of living crisis layoffs E everything in, you know, the UK and elsewhere right now. But it is it's, it is a gonna be a tough time. It's gonna be a very hard year for a lot of people. Um, so yes, BAU, yes, we continue to grow.
Speaker 0 00:30:46 I think we hire, we hire smart. We're looking to bring in people with experience and knowledge and drive. Now it's, it's not so much the old days where it was, you know, who, how many, we just need some hands to do some stuff now it's like, who can we bring in? Who knows about this thing, who can really add immediate value to push it forward? Um, and, and, and to bring help and assistance to the team. I think that will accelerate the speed, which we can move forward and hopefully allow us to push through, uh, whatever happens in the UK and in the world as well. Um, I think, you know, to go about twice earlier, it's, it's, it's having every personal wealth Ker adding value, um, which I, they do, like, you know, we, we have a really great compliment of people, uh, but it's continued to hiring on that basis of people who yeah. Believe in what we're trying to do and are going, give it their all, uh, to, to get us through that.
Speaker 1 00:31:40 Yeah. So really just taking that sort of, you know, intentional approach to hiring and, and scaling and making sure that, you know, you are continuing to grow, but with the right people, exactly taking the right roles and that brings with it sustainability. Right. And, um, yeah. Reliability as well.
Speaker 0 00:31:59 Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:32:01 And, and with this, I suppose it's tough for business owners, not to sort of feel nervous, um, or, you know, feel the need to react, um, in accordance with the market, like from your perspective, and, you know, obviously from Barclays and wealth can now, like, what would your advice be for making it through those tougher times? Like, what do you feel COOs and, and leaders out there should be prioritizing and really just thinking about right now,
Speaker 0 00:32:29 I think I I'm quite a cautious person in general in life. Um, I think the biggest risk when things start to look unstable is to act fast and overcorrect. Um, and you see that in different industries and occasionally it's the right call. Of course it is. But I think you've always gotta be cautious about just, you know, reacting to yesterday's news and, and, and taking that more, more global high level holistic view, giving it time, you know, holding your breath for just a little bit can often really help. I think if you have a plan and a vision of, you know, it's something you believe in and you, you know, where you're going and you can, you know, it's gonna add value and you've got the right people around you and the financial ability as well. Uh, of course then if you can stay the course making small adjustments where necessary that it often, often, I dunno, I feel that pays dividends in terms of, you know, the long term strategy rather than massively swinging one way to the other, in terms of the industry, like people still, still gonna need investment, you know?
Speaker 0 00:33:34 Yeah. Even, even if inflation continues to climb, you know, even if we see interest rates go kind of 1970s, 1980s levels again, which is all possible, I think we all have to accept, this could happen. The market falls out of bed. People are still gonna need pensions. They're still gonna want tax free rappers. Um, they're likely gonna want more of that to put more money away, to try and beat inflation on, on savings rates or investment rates elsewhere, just to try and secure themselves. Yeah. Um, so I don't think we should be blase about this at all. I think, um, you know, most of us, uh, you know, I'm, I'm in my, my kinda late thirties and I think a lot of us in the FinTech space are, you know, in an age range where probably haven't experienced that economic period like this before. So its, its uncertain and that's disconcerting. Um, I don't think anyone's gonna get all the calls. Right. But the fundamentals of society I suppose, is what I believe in. They're not gonna change.
Speaker 1 00:34:32 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:34:32 Still need the services that they needed yesterday. They're still gonna need them tomorrow.
Speaker 1 00:34:37 Yeah. And I suppose it's that, um, you know, taking that sort, as you said, taking a breath and rather than being reactive, be proactive and intentional and a bit more yeah. Like what could potentially be coming and what potential changes can I make as opposed to going, right. I'm reacting to the market. And this is a massive drastic change that I'm making like think about it in phases, thinking, think about it in steps because it, it is, you know, it is gonna be a tough time. I think everybody knows that, but it's cyclical, right? Like this good times will come around again. And it's a matter of how you kind of study yourself through these times and, and sort of make sure that you are in a, in a good position that where when we do come back around, you know, you are, you are, um, ready and, and fit and fighting.
Speaker 0 00:35:29 Yeah, absolutely. It's the same strategy as investing. Yeah. And obviously I am not here to keep investment advice and uh, markets can go down as well as up et cetera. But you know, there is something in, if, you know, if, if the market drops, you don't necessarily want to immediately sell everything, um, just, you know, hold on. Um,
Speaker 1 00:35:49 Wow. Yeah. Brilliant. And, um, for you, and, and from your experience, are there any real sort of pitfalls mistakes that you've seen made, um, you know, even sort of advice that you are sort of like what, why people telling people that, that you'd really wanna fellows or business leaders out there to avoid like anything to really be aware of when it comes to sort of building, building and scaling a business that you've witness over the
Speaker 0 00:36:16 Over promise <laugh> um, it's, you know, I, I would always rather to surprise a customer functionality. They weren't expecting than tell them it's coming in three months and six months later saying it's coming in two months. Um, I think we've, we've all done that everything looks easier than it is to build, especially, you know, when you're talking technology where you're talking complex complex technology, which is replacing things that used to be done by, you know, a team of 30 people, each dealing with 20 or 30 clients each now you want one system to deal with a thousand clients, but do the same amount of work. I think it's, you know, it's still important to strive for excellence. Um, but I, I, I think it's getting people to buy into the idea of releasing solid systems, solid APIs and products over time with very much that MVP approach, minimum viable product. Um, I think that has huge value. You can give someone something simple that works make it better over time, rather than trying to give them the top shelf product
Speaker 1 00:37:22 Or singing straight
Speaker 0 00:37:23 Away or singing or dancing. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:37:25 No, I think that's a great bit of advice and, and it is something that I've definitely witnessed. Um, and, uh, you know, it takes, it takes so long to build trust, especially as, as an early stage company, but it can take one, one mistake one day, one over promise to break that trust. And actually it's so much more important to maintain or build brand integrity when you're an early stage company, like integrity in your product equals integrity in your brand. And, and that is much more sustainable in the long term. Um, so I think that's brilliant bit of advice <laugh> um, and if you can just pick one <laugh>, um, where if you could wave a magic wand and something, um, when it comes to building and leading teams, what would that be?
Speaker 0 00:38:18 Um, that not everyone is a natural manager and that's okay. But that management, managing people is as an important, as skill as the role that you've hired that person to do someone shouldn't just become a managers because they've reached a certain level of seniority within the company, if they're going to be, they should be trained and taught that skill. And I think so few companies invest in that. Um, and I would, I'd love to see that become a much more like important part of a business that cool you've done really well. We've promoted you, uh, you should now take on your own team to run this project. Have you ever managed anyone before? Do you know how to do pastoral care and how to talk to people and how to do one-to-ones now to delegate work and how to help someone develop and how to deal with, you know, complaints and bad days and you know, health issues.
Speaker 1 00:39:15 Yeah. Cause
Speaker 0 00:39:16 Not everyone does. In fact, most people have had no experience of doing that until they're suddenly thrust into it. Like a, oh, you can do this now. And that is so detrimental. We've all had I suspect. No, I have, we've had bad managers in the past. Yeah. Um, and it's, it's so demoralizing. It's so awful. I think it hurts companies so much. And I think it was such an easy way just to improve things. If we all, that's someone
Speaker 1 00:39:47 Companies, somebody to from Savage, vivid, vividly, somebody could be an amazing individual contributor, like unbelievable at, as an engineer at code, you know? Fantastic. That doesn't mean that they're an amazing manager. So just cuz they're at the top of their game as an IC, don't just shift them to a manager because that's the next, you know, development space that you think they should go into. Like it doesn't work like that. And um, yeah, it's really risky because especially when, you know, retention employee engagement is so key to holding onto a fantastic team that you've taken months and months, years, sometimes to build like people leave bad managers. Um, and that's, that's hugely hugely important. So yeah. I hear you. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:40:41 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:40:42 I agree if only we actually had that magic wand. Hey
Speaker 0 00:40:46 <laugh> absolutely. Yeah. Wouldn't that be nice? I'm certainly, I believe me, I don't have a magic wand, but I'm certainly raising my voice about it at wealth. Something that we are really trying to make sure that people are the right fit for that as the company grows.
Speaker 1 00:40:59 Yeah. Cause it takes a, a certain skill, a hundred percent like a very and a, and a complex skill as well. Like this is it is that sort of EQ soft skill, you know, and also sort of that, um, you know, the, the hard skills of management that come with it. Yeah. It's uh, it's a tough one. Um, a couple of lighthearted questions to bring us for a close today. I feel like I've yeah. You know, we've gone through potential recessions, you know, all of, all of those types of topics, but yeah. To, to bring us to a close. Um, is there anything Chris that you are super, super passionate about that you just find UNAP, unapologetic amounts of joy in, um, personal professional bit of both one or the other?
Speaker 0 00:41:44 No. Sure. I mean, I, I have a busy mind. Uh, so I'm passionate about a lot of things. Um, as you can see from what you can see on camera from my room, I'm a huge nerd, uh, with a whole bunch of, uh, star Trek stuff and comics and models and things that I collect I'm really into board games that, uh, became a really big thing, especially during lockdown or couldn't go out. So my board game collection has become quite, quite insane.
Speaker 1 00:42:11 What's your favorite board game?
Speaker 0 00:42:14 That's a hard question. Probably Gloo Haven, which is, uh, like a dungeon crawling RPG type board game. OK.
Speaker 1 00:42:24 Check it
Speaker 0 00:42:25 Out. And uh, yeah, it is it's, it's, it's good, but it will eat your life. Like it, it takes hundreds of hours to complete. Um, so it's really, it's really great now to have friends and family over to play games together again. And like when we meet up as wealth Colonel, I, I tend to have a few games in my bag and that's become a bit of a bit of a cultural wealth. And then alongside that, you know, I am, I'm, you know, really passionate about diversity, uh, especially L G B T Q I plus rights, uh, et cetera. And I'm, I'm bisexual. I'm, non-binary, I'm really open about that. I talk about it quite a lot. It's a big part of who I am and I think it's important for that openness, you know, as a, I mean, I did it when I was younger, but now as a senior, a senior leader, quotation marks in the industry, I think it's important to be open about that, to bring more diversity, make people feel more, feel more comfortable about being open. And I think it's been good. You know, we, we have a really strong, diverse team at wealth Colonel, which is, you know, it's taken a few years to build that up and to, you know, to, to have that in the back of your mind, you obviously want the best person for the job, but you also want that diversity of opinion and ideas and backgrounds, uh, that comes from different experiences, be it, you know, ethnicity or gender or sexuality, um, whatever, you know, I think that's so important to a company
Speaker 1 00:43:44 And also with, with, um, wealth or sort of building a product that's essentially democratizing access to, to investment. Like you wanna be representative of the community that you are operating in and that you're reaching out for. So the only way to do that is through yeah. Really focusing on that, that diversity agenda.
Speaker 0 00:44:02 Absolutely. We've got businesses who use us, you know, we've got an Islamic finance company that use us, uh, company that focuses on, um, green, uh, climate focus, uh, stocks. So we've got a company that focuses on, uh, west African women. Um, so it's like, again, these, these smaller investment firms that are targeting groups of people that have previously pretty much been left outta the investment world.
Speaker 1 00:44:27 Yeah. Yeah. That's something special for sure. Definitely. Um, something brilliant to be part of. So yeah. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 0 00:44:35 No worries
Speaker 1 00:44:36 To bring us to close. Is there a thought or that you,
Speaker 0 00:44:43 Um, my favorite quote, uh, that has stayed with me for many years is all boundaries are conventions, uh, which is from cloud Atlas by David Mitchell. I dunno if you've, uh, read that.
Speaker 1 00:44:55 Yeah, I have. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:44:56 Um, one of my favorite books and I just, it just, it's a phrase that comes into my head most days and it just it's, we only believe things can't be done because we've told they can't be done. And there are the structures that society that have put up around us, uh, both, you know, moral structures or physical structures. And some of them are important. Some of them are needed of course. Uh, but others are not. And I think anything like that can be questioned and challenged.
Speaker 1 00:45:26 I love that. Amazing. That what, what a way to bring it to a place. <laugh> cool. Thank you so so much. I've um, had such a pleasure chatting with you. It's made my Friday afternoon <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:45:38 Oh, thank you. It's been lovely talking to you as well. Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:45:42 Thank you. No, it's been so great to learn more about wealth and, you know, by the sounds of it, you've really built a, uh, a company that puts people at the forefront of what you are doing. Um, not just from democratizing access to, to investment, but also your own people as well. Your remote first, um, you know, you focus on, um, you know, diversity and inclusion as you're building the company. You're really being intentional about, about what you are building and scaling. Um, and yeah, it just sounds brilliant. Such a
Speaker 0 00:46:18 No to.
